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Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

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Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#711

Post by wolverine876 »

bertil wrote: post #546
wolverine876 wrote: post #46

> Angel investor Ron Conway wrote, "What happened at OpenAI today is a Board coup that we have not seen the likes of since 1985 when the then-Apple board pushed out Steve Jobs. It is shocking; it is irresponsible; and it does not do right by Sam & Greg or all the builders in OpenAI." With all sympathy and empathy for Sam and Greg, whose dreams took a blow, I want to say something about investors [edit: not Ron Conway…

I read this as, and both Conway and Y Combinator are famous for their defense of founders . He might be emotional and defend his friends that’s not in challenge, he likes the guys— and he might be more cynical when it comes to firing 10,000 engineers —that’s less what I’ve heard about him personally, but maybe— however, in this case, he’s explicitly defending not an employee victim of the almighty board, but the peop…

That is a thoughtful exploration (or exposition) of what I was meaning to say. My point is that loyalty, that filial piety, should go to the employees who also work and sacrifice.

I think the distinction of founders is a rationalization of simple corruption: They know the founder, it's their buddy; they go to the same club, eat at the same restaurants, serve on the same boards, and have similar careers. Understanding the burden and challenges and the accomplishment of founders is instinctive, and appreciating founders is appreciating themselves.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#712

Post by anonymouskimmer »

veidr wrote: post #705
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that non-General AI would typically outcompete AGI, all else held equal. In such a scenario even a first-past-the-post AGI would have trouble becoming an overload if non-Generalized AIs were marshaled against it.

uhm, wat?

This is just the thesis that paperclip optimizers win over general intelligence, because they optimize.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#713

Post by anonymouskimmer »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #690
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that non-General AI would typically outcompete AGI, all else held equal. In such a scenario even a first-past-the-post AGI would have trouble becoming an overload if non-Generalized AIs were marshaled against it.

This makes no sense at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38335012

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#714

Post by wolverine876 »

digi59404 wrote: post #688
emptysongglass wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you still hireable? If I knew you orchestrated two coups at previous companies and I was responsible for hiring, you would be radioactive to me. Especially knowing that all that effort went into putting together a successful coup over other work. Coups, in general, are the domain of the petty. One need only look at Ilya and D'Angelo to see this in action. D'Angelo neutered Quora by pushing out its co-founder,…

Let me pose a theoretical. Let’s say you’re a VP or Senior Director. One of your sibling directors or VPs is over a department and field you have intimate domain knowledge. Meaning you have a successful track record in that field both from a management side and an IC side. Now, that sibling director allows a culture of sexual harassment, law breaking, and toxic throat slitting behavior. HR and the Organizations leade…

> “Your best action is to walk away” - Good leadership doesn’t just walk away and let the company and employees fail.

Yes, exactly. In fact, it's corruption of leadership.

If an engineer came to the leader about a critical technical problem and said, 'our best choice is to pretend it's not there', the leader would demand more of the engineer. At a place like OpenAI, they might remind the engineer that they are the world's top engineers at arguably the most cutting edge software organization in the world, and they are expected to deliver solutions to the hardest problems. Throwing your hands up and ignoring the problem is just not acceptable.

Leaders need to demand the same of themselves, and one of their jobs is to solve the leadership problems that are just as difficult as those engineering problems - to deliver leadership results to the organization just like the engineer delivers engineering results, no excuses, no doubts. Many top-level leaders don't have anyone demanding performance of them, and don't hold themselves to the same standards in their job - leadership, management - as they hold their employees.

> Not when there’s still the ability to effect positive change and fix the problems.

Even there, I think you are going to easy on them. Only in hindsight do you maybe say, 'I don't see what could have been done.' At the moment, you say 'I don't see it yet, so I have to keep looking and innovating and finding a way'.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#715

Post by Nidhug »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #632
Nidhug wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Bill Gates really loved by all ? I feel like it was the case before COVID, but then his reputation seemed to go from loved to hated

What was it he did wrong during Covid? Honest question I usually pay little attention the guy Being old and having lived through Evil Gates, when he made a lot of hostile and legally dubois things to ensure of the growth and safety from competitors, I lived in a bubble that he was one of the worst people in tech. Seeing how now only knew the smiling "philanthropist" who comments on having solutions to all sorts of wo…

During covid there were crazy conspiracies were he supposedly wanted to put chips in people's brains, which signiciantly affected his public image

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#716

Post by wolverine876 »

adastra22 wrote: post #593
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Max Levchin was an organizer of two coups while at PayPal. Both times, he believed it was necessary for the success of the company. Whether that was correct or not, they eventually succeeded and I don’t think the coups really hurt his later career.

PayPal had an exit, but it absolutely did not succeed in the financial revolution it was attempting. People forget now that OG PayPal was attempting the digital financial revolution that later would be bitcoin’s raison d'être.

Dismissing PayPal as anything but an overwhelming business success takes a lot of confidence. Unless you Gates or Zuckerburg, etc., I don't know how you have anything but praise for PayPal from that perspective.

Comparing PayPal's success in digital finance to cryptocurrency's is an admission against interest, as they say in the law.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#717

Post by mola »

threeseed wrote: post #216
wolverine876 wrote: post #46

> Angel investor Ron Conway wrote, "What happened at OpenAI today is a Board coup that we have not seen the likes of since 1985 when the then-Apple board pushed out Steve Jobs. It is shocking; it is irresponsible; and it does not do right by Sam & Greg or all the builders in OpenAI." With all sympathy and empathy for Sam and Greg, whose dreams took a blow, I want to say something about investors [edit: not Ron Conway…

> The board's job is not to do right There is why you do something. And there is how you do something. OpenAI is well within its rights to change strategy even as bold as from a profit-seeking behemoth to a smaller research focused team. But how they went about this is appalling, unprofessional and a blight on corporate governance. They have blind-sided partners (e.g. Satya is furious), split the company into two cam…

The way Altman behaved and manipulated the board to form this Frankenstein company is also appalling. I think it's clear now that openAI board are not business ppl, and they had no idea how to work with someone as cold and manipulative as Altman, thus they blundered and made fools of themselves, as often happen to the naive.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#718

Post by ensignavenger »

adastra22 wrote: post #600
GCA10 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only appropriate target for Microsoft's anger would be its own deal negotiators. OpenAI's dual identity as a nonprofit/for-profit business was very well known. And the concentration of power in the nonprofit side was also very well known. From the media coverage of Microsoft's investments, it sounds as if MSFT prioritized getting lots of business for its Azure cloud service -- and didn't prioritize getting a boar…

Sure, but Microsoft could also walk away today and leave OpenAI high and dry. They hold ALL the power here.

Could they? I don't know the details of MSFTs contracts with OpenAI... but even if they can legally just walk away, it would certainly have some negative impact on MSFTs reputation when dealing with future negotiations for them to do so.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#719

Post by meroes »

pvaldes wrote: post #539
meroes wrote: post #249

Why has no one on HN considered it has to do with sexually assaulting his sister when they were young? https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/QDczBduZorG4dxZiW/sam-altman... My other main guess is his push for government regulation being seen as stifling AI growth or even collusion with unaligned actors by the more scienc-y side and got him ousted by them.

> Why has no one on HN considered it has to do with ... Maybe because this was not proven in a court still, and "innocent until proven guilty" is still a basic concept that must be preserved. So a big "allegedly" must be placed here.

It's not that he did it per se, but that it-the public and private story- may have lead to situations with him not being sufficiently candid with the board, for whatever reason.

I'm just saying, not even one comment about it as a possibility among the hundreds I read was kind of weird.

Re: Details emerge of surprise board coup that ousted CEO Sam Altman at OpenAI

#720

Post by j7ake »

justcool393 wrote: post #519
wolverine876 wrote: post #46

> Angel investor Ron Conway wrote, "What happened at OpenAI today is a Board coup that we have not seen the likes of since 1985 when the then-Apple board pushed out Steve Jobs. It is shocking; it is irresponsible; and it does not do right by Sam & Greg or all the builders in OpenAI." With all sympathy and empathy for Sam and Greg, whose dreams took a blow, I want to say something about investors [edit: not Ron Conway…

it's hilarious how much people for no reason, want to defend the honor of Sam Altman and co. i mean ffs, the guy is not your friend and will definitely backstab you if he gets the opportunity. i'm surprised anyone can take this "oh woe is me i totally was excited about the future of humanity" crap seriously. these are SV investors here, morally equivalent to the people on Wall Street that a lot here would probably ho…

Yeah it’s crazy how much the tech community is defending this random CEO, considering the relatively unsympathetic response to the tech layoffs over the last year.
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