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Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

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Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#711

Post by patmorgan23 »

starttoaster wrote: post #401
Zak wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google had the opportunity to own this space a decade ago when they made Hangouts the default SMS client on Android. It's exactly what Apple did with iMessage, but Hangouts was cross-platform. It's absolutely bizarre to me they didn't iterate on that. I'm kind of glad they didn't.

On the flipside, Hangouts being sunset is the main reason I eventually left the Android ecosystem. Hangouts on a Pixel phone on Google Fi service was excellent for an SMS app. Feeling snubbed by the life getting choked out of Hangouts, I'm no longer a user of all 3.

Yeah, it really is the post child for Google not being able to innovate in it's modern form.

What's really changed about their core products in the last 10 years? (maps, mail, ads, YouTube, docs/gsuite) some of them have gotten some nice QoL improvements but nothing has really been added to that list because they keep killing products off.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#712

Post by patmorgan23 »

nradov wrote: post #660
bigfudge wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad thing for me is that even though almost all my contacts have iPhones, the lowest common denominator effect means everyone ends up using WhatsApp to allow everyone to join. That’s definitely a worse outcome

Why is that worse? Isn't WhatsApp a better alternative?

Meta owns whatsapp.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#713

Post by devilbunny »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #547
devilbunny wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is prejudiced. I assume Meta is going to make me the product. Signal does E2EE. They have not yet done anything to jeopardize the trust they have earned. Some do not like them, and that’s fine. I have a different view.

Apple is right now making you the product in a way that limits your privacy, telling other people that they have to buy an apple device if they want encrypted communications with you.

No, they just have to use something other than iMessage. But they won’t.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#714

Post by randomdata »

bigfudge wrote: post #707
randomdata wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter what the goal was, it remains that other players would have jumped in if there wasn't the legal impediments. But such regulation provided a moat in which they were able to build their monopoly. Same goes for Microsoft. Everyone and their brother would have released their own 'Windows' if regulation weren't there to disallow it. Again, that regulation offered a moat which allowed them to establish their mono…

From a long perspective I think the bell monopoly probably served an important purpose and may have been worth it. Not having universal service would have been socially divisive and culturally a problem. I think we need to stop judging things only on (presumed/assumed) economic efficiency. Non monetary values mean regulation is often important. We accept this with environmental and health/safety rules to some degree…

> is your argument that we should have no intellectual property rights for software at all?

Obviously not. That would require opinion, and sharing opinion is in bad faith. Discussion is merely for talking about how the world is. And as the way the world is, a monopoly needs some kind of moat to emerge. Intellectual property regulation exists to enable such moats.

> It seems odd to single out only this example.

Why? One example is all that is necessary to convey the idea.

But also, it is the only convicted monopolist in that respect that I could think off off the top of my head. Google was recently charged, but not yet convicted, so I could not include them. I am not about to suggest that other companies are monopolies based on my opinion. That, again, would be in bad faith. But, theoretically, the same could apply to other companies. It is not something that needs to be strictly limited to Microsoft.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#715

Post by eropple »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #694
rootusrootus wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal can be better in all ways except the one that matters most. Not a single person I communicate with uses it. So it's useless.

You gotta find a way to make it clear you dont consent to be sharing your stuff with anyone but you , case closed. It has all the same toys and whistles so theres just no excuse. Its a boundary and we all need to get real better at understanding and being respectful thereto. Only issue is if you want them more than they you, there's a bit of a dance to navigate . If the like Musk, send them to all his endorsementz. A…

> You gotta find a way to make it clear you dont consent to be sharing your stuff with anyone but you , case closed. It has all the same toys and whistles so theres just no excuse.

"It's not what we all already use."

There's exactly one person I know who uses Signal on a consistent basis. I don't turn on notifications for anything, so I don't see their messages on a consistent basis, but Signal offers me no incentive to use limited social credibility to try to encourage others to use its awkward affordances and non-native interface over either a native interface with reasonable security (iMessage) or a much better non-native interface without (Discord, Slack).

"There's no excuse not to use the one I like" is Linux-on-the-desktopping and is not responsive to how normal human beings actually operate in life and society. You might put picky conditions on your interactions, but most people meet others where they are--because network effects are real and humans matter more than technology.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#716

Post by Obscurity4340 »

eropple wrote: post #715
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gotta find a way to make it clear you dont consent to be sharing your stuff with anyone but you , case closed. It has all the same toys and whistles so theres just no excuse. Its a boundary and we all need to get real better at understanding and being respectful thereto. Only issue is if you want them more than they you, there's a bit of a dance to navigate . If the like Musk, send them to all his endorsementz. A…

> You gotta find a way to make it clear you dont consent to be sharing your stuff with anyone but you , case closed. It has all the same toys and whistles so theres just no excuse. "It's not what we all already use." There's exactly one person I know who uses Signal on a consistent basis. I don't turn on notifications for anything, so I don't see their messages on a consistent basis, but Signal offers me no incentive…

If you actually use Signal and you have notifs you would not be saying any of this. Signal is beyond smooth in the UI/UX departments and the only difficulty is someone 1)install app 2) open app 3) enter number or username 4) basically done? That's literally every damn app. So tired of this FUD.

Has all the features of anything else without the bullshit and lack of credibillity/hazard to their own users.

If people respect themselves and their data enough, they will find a way. I've had zero problem with my closest friends cuz they trust I don't assign them random bullshit for shiggles. Maybe you need to reevaluate your relationships and the extent to which you place primacy on being able to communicate freely and without crap that works against you (or at least isnt built to work with you rather than rat you out about everything controversial you privately express)

Just don't get it man, maybe they're more the Telegram type. Nothing's more advanced or private than a Telegram for sure. Stop.

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#717

Post by eropple »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #716
eropple wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You gotta find a way to make it clear you dont consent to be sharing your stuff with anyone but you , case closed. It has all the same toys and whistles so theres just no excuse. "It's not what we all already use." There's exactly one person I know who uses Signal on a consistent basis. I don't turn on notifications for anything, so I don't see their messages on a consistent basis, but Signal offers me no incentive…

If you actually use Signal and you have notifs you would not be saying any of this. Signal is beyond smooth in the UI/UX departments and the only difficulty is someone 1)install app 2) open app 3) enter number or username 4) basically done? That's literally every damn app. So tired of this FUD. Has all the features of anything else without the bullshit and lack of credibillity/hazard to their own users. If people res…

There was a point where I did try to use Signal in anger. It petered out almost immediately because nobody I talk to uses it except to turn on disappearing messages, shit-talk somebody else, and then go back to Slack or Discord. Because it does do disappearing messages well! But nobody I know wants to deal with it past that because contrary to your "it's just like everything else", its affordances are at best not distinguishing and certainly not good.

At some point, perhaps it will enter your consideration that talking about things like "people respect[ing] themselves and their data enough" is alienating to anybody who has a job and a mortgage and things they care about more than your minority choice of a messaging platform. Normal people don't care because normal people don't have governments, etc. in their threat models because normal people are boring. If you want to interest normal people, you have to be better than the BATNA--better than non-use. And saying "privacy" or "just get your friends to use it too" is a fail state.

Linux-on-the-desktop failed, too, when the only tool in the box was hectoring. (He said, from a Linux desktop.)

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#718

Post by Obscurity4340 »

eropple wrote: post #717
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually use Signal and you have notifs you would not be saying any of this. Signal is beyond smooth in the UI/UX departments and the only difficulty is someone 1)install app 2) open app 3) enter number or username 4) basically done? That's literally every damn app. So tired of this FUD. Has all the features of anything else without the bullshit and lack of credibillity/hazard to their own users. If people res…

There was a point where I did try to use Signal in anger. It petered out almost immediately because nobody I talk to uses it except to turn on disappearing messages, shit-talk somebody else, and then go back to Slack or Discord. Because it does do disappearing messages well! But nobody I know wants to deal with it past that because contrary to your "it's just like everything else", its affordances are at best not dis…

Sounds like you got everything figured out, thanks for chiming in =)

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#719

Post by zik »

zuppy wrote: post #654
zik wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when they adopt RCS I bet they still punish non Apple users with green bubbles.

the green buble is not for the Android users, it's for the iOS users to know that there may be some taxes for sending the message. even on iOS you get a green bubble if you disable imessage. i don't understand what's in it for you guys for repeating that rethoric about the punishment.

There's a huge financial incentive for them to punish competitors this way and it's been hugely effective in the US market. Why wouldn't they?

Re: Apple announces that RCS support is coming to iPhone next year

#720

Post by xctr94 »

smartbit wrote: post #226
lxgr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need to. Almost nobody uses iMessage in the EU, since everybody is on WhatsApp.

More than 10% of europeans use iMessage, enough for EU Digital Market Act to force Apple to adopt RCS and thereby trying to circumvent opening iMessage itself

Apple’s own argument is this isn’t true. A “major number of users” have iMessage turned on automatically, but aren’t active users.

If even Apple says iMessage isn’t used by at least 45 million EU citizens… (to qualify for gatekeeper status)

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