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Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

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Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#711

Post by runako »

RandomLensman wrote: post #655
runako wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying people shouldn't go to the office. I'm just saying there are a number of downsides to encouraging walking over to someone's desk to ask a question as a primary mode of knowledge exchange. These downsides have been enumerated at length in The Discourse. On the other side of the ledge is mostly "qualitative" arguments lacking in specifics. The main thing is there are real trade-offs for the staff and org…

Do you think soldiers in battle should send well crafted emails instead of shouting or just acting on observations? Not sure things are just "qualitative"...

Absolutely wild to take a discussion about "Return to Office" and pivot to soldiers in battle. Solid B for trolling. Would be A-caliber except effective militaries write a lot and use written words as a key part of their command and control. (I will escalate your "soldiers in battle" and ask whether you think launch command on a nuclear submarine would launch nuclear missiles solely on the basis of a quick call?)

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#712

Post by caseysoftware »

Two9A wrote: post #3

This is one aspect of the RTO discussion that's sometimes missed: there are plenty of people in the tech sphere (myself included) who've been comfortably remote for much longer than those who were pushed into remote work by lockdowns and pandemic response. We're not about to give up a whole lifestyle we've built over (in some cases) decades, on the whim of whichever executive we happen to be serving under at the pres…

When I worked for Bay Area companies from Central Texas, I used my remoteness (+2 hr timezone diff) to my team's advantage very visibly and on purpose.

- The UK team wants a noon (their time) meeting? Sure, I'll do it at 6am my time vs the SF team doing it at 4am.

- That NYC customer wants us to present at 9am ET? Sure, I'll do it at 8am my time vs the SF's team at 6am.

- Need someone to cover that meeting in Atlanta/DC/Dallas/Houston/Chicago? Sure, you can take a 3+ hour(+2-3 timezone) flight to cover it or I can just hop over in a fraction of the time.

After a while, I got ALL of the East Coast and European calls simply out of convenience.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#713

Post by enobrev »

_puk wrote: post #518
lazide wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s not in writing, it ‘never happened’ - and even then, make sure you have a copy they can’t get at and know your odds of a successful prosecution under the law (and your ability and willingness to see it through). Because sometimes that will be required.

Generally[0] your contract references a living policy document covering the softer areas. I see changes to these documents as similar to the change in T's & C's for any service I use; your continued use of the service denotes acceptance of the new terms. You're welcome to leave at any time. Not sure what you can litigate against. 0: anecdotal from the past 15 years

A hiring contract isn't Terms of Service or a EULA. Your job isn't a service to you, it's an employer. You make a deal with a company in which you offer your time and expertise for pay and amenities. That contract with the company binds them as much as it binds you.

Anything non-monetary that they take away from you should be offered in compensation and/or renegotiation. You should not be allowing changes to your employment contract without approval, especially ones where they are removing amenities.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#714

Post by LorenPechtel »

snotrockets wrote: post #419
EFreethought wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> remote work isn't working for us It is working out. I looked at a few financial statements for a few companies pushing RTO (Amazon and a couple of Wall Street firms). Granted, it wasn't comprehensive or scientific, but: They all made more money in 2022 than in 2019 (the last year before COVID). So I really do not see what the problem is.

Managers can't look out of the office and feel powerful by watching the people they control.

And managers ability to play dirty politics is greatly reduced. Remote is a big problem for managers who aren't actually competent and it's a problem for those who like to take credit for other's work.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#715

Post by some_furry »

Banditoz wrote: post #638

I'm curious how HN ranking works. This has 674 votes over 2 hours but is #45 at page 2.

A lot of people flag the things I write out of a reflexive dislike of anything furry. That is certainly a factor too.

E.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37741797

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#716

Post by cdchn »

seattle_spring wrote: post #680
cdchn wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if we want to presume that the original linked article's author works for Amazon, we got 1: Amazon. Who else?

Google, Lyft, Facebook

I haven't seen anything about them requiring pre-pandemic remote employees to relocate post-pandemic, only people who moved after the pandemic WFH movement started. I'm genuinely interested in if they're going after this.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#717

Post by throwanem »

paulddraper wrote: post #688
throwanem wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes. Advice given to address one circumstance often does not apply in another, wholly different circumstance.

> Never choose the one giving you an ultimatum

One tiny fragment of a hologram, taken in isolation, still to some extent can represent the whole.

An essay isn't a hologram, and whatever you're trying to accomplish by treating it as if it were continues to escape me.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#718

Post by dalyons »

DrScientist wrote: post #437

There is one element ( elephant ) of remote working that I don't see being much discussed. If the job can be done remotely and async - it potentially can be done from anywhere. Potentially this means you are competing globally for that job. And I suspect for most of the people on these boards there are lots of places which have both the talent and much lower costs. So in a completely free market you might find that c…

its discussed literally every time a remote work/rto post comes up on this site. And then the usual responses about how international offshoring has been tried before various times and it mostly doesnt work for XYZ reasons etc etc

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#719

Post by Yizahi »

defendBanana wrote: post #323
Yizahi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working in office can be good. But the question is - are you getting paid 20% more for the RTO job compared to the remote? To compensate for the 20% more time wasted in useless transit (2 more hours per day)?

In your scenario, presumably you are 20% less effective for same pay. So in a way yes but comp does not need to be adjusted.

Why would a person be less effective if he works same 8 standard hours per day?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#720

Post by RandomLensman »

runako wrote: post #711
RandomLensman wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think soldiers in battle should send well crafted emails instead of shouting or just acting on observations? Not sure things are just "qualitative"...

Absolutely wild to take a discussion about "Return to Office" and pivot to soldiers in battle. Solid B for trolling. Would be A-caliber except effective militaries write a lot and use written words as a key part of their command and control. (I will escalate your "soldiers in battle" and ask whether you think launch command on a nuclear submarine would launch nuclear missiles solely on the basis of a quick call?)

I know, actually, but any place relying very strongly on formalised communication over dynamic approaches tends to underperform anyway (and militaries relearn that every so often), so all this stuff will resolve itself over time anyway. The non-social crowd will lose out, just give it time.

Btw., depending on country and situation, nuclear missile submarines can actually have wide latitude on decisions.

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