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Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

arstechnica.com

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Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#711
post #131

This thread baffles me. There are a lot of replies that either didn’t read the article (or even the headline) that seem to be government apologists, or arguing that a particular email isn’t coercive enough, etc. A court found that the government abused its power and infringes on people’s first amendment rights by using its intimidation power to coerce social media to censor free speech of citizens. Freedom of speech…

It's integral for the executive office to be able to head off garbage information like that spewed by MAGAs and antivax people, no one forced twitter or facebook to censor that garbage, but they chose to. This judgement is garbage and the judge's decision will pretty quickly be vacated by the appellate court because the executive branch has been able to contact newspapers and other media since the beginning of the nation. It seems to me like this judge thinks that the judicial branch is the only "powerful" branch of the government these days, like the Supreme Court seems to think as well.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#712
post #167
post #131

This thread baffles me. There are a lot of replies that either didn’t read the article (or even the headline) that seem to be government apologists, or arguing that a particular email isn’t coercive enough, etc. A court found that the government abused its power and infringes on people’s first amendment rights by using its intimidation power to coerce social media to censor free speech of citizens. Freedom of speech…

Read the entire injunction. It’s only seven pages. Then tell me with a straight face that you think it’s a good thing for free speech. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.lawd.18... It amounts to “no one from these 8 government agencies may communicate with anyone working at these three non profits, 20 social media companies or any similar organization” I’m not defending the behavior alleged here but…

It's definitely overreach by an activist MAGA judge. It will be overturned within the next week or two, I'm sure that the judges in this circuit are shocked that one of their own would be guilty of such poor interpretation of the situation and trying to invoke absolute authority over the executive branch.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind telling me how it's clear that I dislike corporations? I'll proudly admit I have no trust in corporations, but dislike is a little far. There's corporations I like but there's no corporations I trust.

Any entity you distrust is also an entity that most reasonably fits into the classification of dislike. You may like thier products or services but that's not the same as liking the corp itself.

Trust and affection are two different emotions that I'm able to separate.

For example, I like Adidas shoes but when they boast about sustainability I question the truth in that and their intentions.

I prefer Pepsi over Coke but I don't trust either to be truthful in their marketing. I think it's bullshit that Santa prefers Coke, for one he's not even a real person, but I don't dislike Coke for using Santa as a mascot.

I hate Disney though and I firmly believe they're among one of the worst companies on the planet. I oppose anything they do out of principle and believe every decision they make needs to answer yes to the question "Will this make us a billion dollars?" I hope to live to see the day they fold and disappear forever.

So no, I don't dislike every corporation and my inherit distrust doesn't undermine my views one bit. I don't know how one can possibly trust a capitalist company whose motives are primarily profit driven. I don't know how one could think a company stands for anything that wouldn't make them money or would honestly have a goal that wasn't driven by profits.

A good barometer on if a company has morals is if they use rainbow logos in Saudi Arabia during June. Try coming up with a single argument for why a company world proudly display them in North America but not in the Middle East without mentioning profits or market share, and good luck. I personally think it's completely indefensible.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#714
post #532
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding a list of carve outs doesn’t make the ban ok.

You wrote a false claim and are now changing the subject. Which ban is not ok, specifically?

I’ve done nothing of the sort.

As I said throughout this thread, the injunction prohibits any communications based on a vague and subjective content or motive between a group of approx. 500,000 citizens who are US government employees and several million individuals worldwide who are employed by any of the named social media companies, nonprofits, or similar organizations.

This is not ok. If restrictions on speech are ever justified they have to be narrowly tailored in terms of content and substance, neither of which is true here.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said in your other post that the vaccine was gene therapy and that cheap treatments were effective. I'm presuming you either mean Hydroxychloroquine or horse paste. None of those statements are true and because of them countless people died. The statements are worthy of head shaking now. During the pandemic they constituted shouting fire in a crowded theater. They are fundamentally unworthy of protection.

[flagged]

Vaccines aren't gene therapy because MRNA involves chucking components at your cell for it to post process into stuff not permanently writing changes to the blueprints of the cells themselves. It neither makes any change to the cells themselves nor persists beyond the material being processed out of your system.

Gene therapy involves making modifications to cells. Presenting MRNA as gene therapy makes people afraid to use it because they erroneously believe it will permanently alter their DNA.

The balance of evidence is that horse paste is between useless and harmful depending on dosage. The average patient will discover their doctor/pharmacist wont provide it and getting it yourself from the internet is even more harmful than clinical administration because of a users inability to obtain or administer a less than disastrous dose.

A high risk patient who has say a 3% chance of mortality without a vaccine will likely die or experience painful and harmful consequences if they avoid a vaccine extremely unlikely to do them harm in favor of a "cure" that doesn't work.

I know you have heard all this. Years later if you are still spreading this then you are willfully spreading lies and its not OK.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#716
post #65
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TFG what is this referring to?

It stands for “The Former Guy.” Some people won’t say Trump’s name.

yiiikes, when I see something like that, I lose all respect for the person speaking

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#717
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI the purpose of an entire branch of government (judiciary) is to have opinions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_opinion

Judicial opinions != Personal opinions It ain't the same ballpark. It ain't the same league. It ain't even the same freakin' sport. Equating the two is like equating a sea sponge and a dish sponge. "Well, they're both sponges!"

Yes indeed, I was just being a bit cheeky given GP's other discussion of the definition of 'opinion' :)

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#718
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For instance, if you're the FAA, you should express opinions about airline operations, air safety, etc. That is your role. If you are the FDA, you should express opinions about food and drug safety. And in both those cases note that you are a regulator, and within your domain, it is your role to regulate the players. If you are the White House, you are not a regulator of anything. It is fine to express your opinion.…

Man, people are being really rude here just for me asking a question.

“Honest question bro!”

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#719
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judgement itself is worth reading; it is not nearly as polemical as it being made out to be. It goes into detail on the question of how the states of Missouri and Louisiana have standing here; the “letter of the law” answer is that there is extensive precedent for determining whether states have standing in cases like this and the judge determined this case clearly passes the tests set by those precedents, while…

Nobody has a right to post on Twitter.

Again, I encourage you to read the ruling. It addresses this claim quite thoroughly:

> Traditionally, the First Amendment imposes limitations only on “state action, not action by private parties.” Lloyd Corp., Ltd. v. Tanner, 407 U.S. 551, 567 (1972).

> However, plaintiffs “may establish a First Amendment claim based on private conduct if that conduct ‘can fairly be seen as state action.'” Id. (quoting Rendell-Baker v. Kohn, 457 U.S. 830, 838 (1982)).

> the Court instructed that “[i]t is axiomatic that a state may not induce, encourage or promote private persons to accomplish what it is constitutionally forbidden to accomplish.” Id. (quoting Lee v. Macon Cnty. Bd. of Ed., 267 F.Supp. 458, 475-476 (M.D. Ala.), affd sub nom. Wallace v. U S, 389 U.S. 215 (1967)).

Essentially: yes, you do not have a right to post on Twitter, you cannot sue Twitter for violating your First Amendment rights. But the courts have repeatedly affirmed that this does not create a loophole for the government to launder unconstitutional acts through private parties.

Re: Injunction issued in case about social media pressure from US Government

#720

I love HN legal threads because engineers have great (logical) legal analysis, but with a terrible (practical) understanding of the law. And every so often a someone with legal training chimes in like "wtf guys" It's like watching a good software engineer try to build a circuit board without google: I see how you got there, but damn, that's... not gonna work great. Idk the law either, though, so I can't judge

Engineers having poor legal analysis seems to stem from a common assumption that lawyers are the programmers, the law is the code, and the judge is the interpreter/compiler who just sort of runs the arguments the lawyers provide and outputs an answer. This leads them to over-weight “rules lawyering” and creative interpretations. It can be fixed by instead viewing lawyers as junior devs making competing PRs and the judge as the senior dev reviewing and approving/denying them: if you find a clever loophole that inverts the law , the judge will say “that is not intended, denied”.
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