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Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

reuters.com

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Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#711

Post by s1artibartfast »

seemack wrote: post #706
s1artibartfast wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most would agree that not every single protester has been peaceful at all times. Now what?

That's it. We've successfully answered the question of if it is a peaceful protest.

now we go back to step 1.

>I think the real struggle is understanding the degree to which they are peaceful or not. Obviously nothing is black or white.

I would also add, the next struggle is what it impact it should have on our reaction, if any.

Obviously violence has nothing to do if someone if right or wrong, but it does have to do with if they should be tolerated. At what point do we no longer tolerate protests based on some violent indivduals?

What if their leaders endorse violence? If 1% of protesters are violent? If 0.001% are violent?

These are the real questions, and not particularly new ones.... There was a lot of violence from US civil rights protesters, people even got violent at MLK protests.

But still, there is a limit somewhere. I think protests should be shut down if the leaders endorse violence. Beyond that, it is really hard to say. Maybe percent is a bad way to think about it, and we should look at damage, IDK.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#712

Post by BeefWellington »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #439
BeefWellington wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience has been essentially the opposite of the person you're replying to. Health care where I am is great, I can see my primary care doctor mostly same day or next day and the odd tests I've needed have never been any kind of wait longer than 3 weeks (for non-urgent tests). Immediate care for actual emergencies, I've been seen right away. It's a triage system, so if you go to the emergency department at the h…

> Health care where I am is great, I can see my primary care doctor mostly same day or next day and the odd tests I've needed have never been any kind of wait longer than 3 weeks (for non-urgent tests). Try living outside Canada. I used to think healthcare was great as a young male... (men typically don't interact with the healthcare system as often as women for biological reasons) My girlfriend is pregnant. She's fr…

> My girlfriend is pregnant. She's from the Czech Republic. We were just in the Czech Republic for 2 months. 3 weeks for non-urgent tests? Try a day. As in phone the clinic, get a test for the NEXT day. During the Omicron wave. She had bloodwork done, an ultrasound, x-ray for a foot injury, treatment for said injury, dental work done, etc... No wait times for anything. No wait times at the clinic. No need for a primary care doctor (something which many Canadians don't have because of a shortage of doctors).

My partner had a similar experience when she went through her pregnancy during the first wave of covid (when everything was less certain). A pregnant woman is going to always have things like soft tissue ultrasounds before a guy with a light sports injury (my example of having to wait 3 weeks).

Your pregnant partner and I with a light sports injury are, in no good healthcare system, going to be given equal priority.

For an actual important scan like an X-Ray of a broken bone, it's always been immediate.

> Go to another developed country. Live for awhile. The only people who think Canada's doing OK are the ones who never left.

This is an awful assumption to make of anyone, especially anyone in a tech forum online IME. We're one of the most mobile workforces. I've absolutely lived and worked for lengthy stretches in other countries and experienced life there. I've obviously not lived everywhere but I suspect almost every country has its own pain points.

It's clear from your various posts though that you're stumping for the Czech Republic, and that's great, I'm glad you found a spot to make you happy.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#713

Post by smsm42 »

klyrs wrote: post #709
smsm42 wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is vague enough so that if FBI wants, it can declare a real lot of things to be domestic terrorism. The official definition is "dangerous criminal acts intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or to influence or affect government policy or conduct within the jurisdiction of the United States". Now, what is "dangerous"? There's no objective standard to it. Some people say publicly disagreeing wit…

That's a very loquatious way to say that no, shouting at a school board meeting is not legally defined as terrorism. And, you're awfully fixated on American policy on this story about a situation going down in Canada. We are not the 51st state.

No, that's not what I said. What I said is, if FBI wants it, it can be treated by them as terrorism, and to prove them wrong would take a lot of effort. And there's no way neither to prevent them from it, nor to punish them for getting it wrong.

And if you think matters are different in Canada with respect to how law enforcement works, or how "anti-terrorist law" works - you'll soon learn Canadian law enforcement can make one's life hell the same way FBI can.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#714

Post by [deleted] »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #710
defaultname wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say these people don't have trucks or employment driving trucks. Clearly they do. But that the misrepresentation that they represent truckers , instead of just being some small subsection that have trucks, is misleading. Again, all logistics are happening like normal through this whole event. Cross border traffic (despite vaccine mandates on both sides) at normal levels. National traffic at normal levels. Yo…

OK, I see what you're saying now. On first read it sounded like you were saying they aren't truckers, but you're actually saying they don't represent all truckers. In reality they represent at least as many truckers as are present (and who knows how many that aren't: what a union's PR department says and what its members think aren't necessarily the same thing), and presumably a large chunk of the people out there ch…

[deleted]

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#715

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

mthoms wrote: post #689
odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm your boss, either have sex with me or be fired. You aren't forced, there are a lot of other jobs that don't require you to have sex with the boss. You ok with this? Don't have an abortion or you will be fired. Don't have a kid or you will be fired. It is always a choice right?

In Canada, all of what you just described is illegal.

That is the point. 'Have a vaccine or be fired' is the same.

Sure, it isn't 'forced' as in, we will tie you up and someone will give you the vaccine, (same as have sex with me or be fired, technically I won't force myself on you) but basically amounts to the same. And taking in account that a) there are vaccine side effects (I had them and know a few others that also did) b) they don't really help with the spread, just reducing the symptoms, it shouldn't be the business deciding on it.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#716

Post by naasking »

tkamat29 wrote: post #516
naasking wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Availability of ICU beds here in Ontario has basically been flat since September, with a slight reduction recently due to Omicron: https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations Furthermore, unvaccinated people are occupying fewer beds than vaccinated people in terms of numbers. Even if they all got vaccinated, we'd be basically in exactly the same place, so how do you expect vaccine mandates to help here?

The reason Ontario (and Canada in general) is doing well is because they have a much higher vaccination rate and a healthier population in general. In the US, the high numbers of hospitalization and death are overwhelmingly unvaccinated and/or extremely unhealthy individuals. Also, comparing absolute numbers is disingenuous when the vaccination rate is so high.

Yes, Canada does have a higher vaccination rate, but Canada and Ontario in particular has a very low number of ICU beds per capita compared to other nations in the developed world, so the picture presented by those numbers is actually pessimistic. That's also why we've had far more lockdowns here than the US, because our underinvestment in healthcare has come back to bite us.

In any case, I think it's clear that the claim I responded to that "hundreds of thousands of people dropping dead that normally wouldn't" is overblown regardless of these numbers. The people dying are mostly the elderly and the sickly, which are exactly the people who we would in fact expect to die suddenly, and healthy people would not be dropping dead in those numbers even if the ICUs were overflowing.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#717

Post by naasking »

PierceJoy wrote: post #482
naasking wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many jobs have had vaccine and testing requirements for decades and nobody lost their mind Yes, "many", not "all". Do you think we're still in "many" territory or are we trending towards "all"? The requirements changing for a job they may have had for decades is also a legitimate reason to be upset. Let's not pretend there aren't legitimate concerns here.

We're not even close to "all" territory. > The requirements changing for a job they may have had for decades is also a legitimate reason to be upset. People are fired all the time because their job requirements changed, or they were made redundant. Where have the mass protests been for that? > Let's not pretend there aren't legitimate concerns here. Some concerns are legitimate, other's are not. But occupying the nat…

> We're not even close to "all" territory.

I said trending in that direction, I didn't say we were in or close to that territory. The idea behind protests is not just to move out of some conceptual territory, but also to stop movement into such territory if we're headed in that direction.

> People are fired all the time because their job requirements changed, or they were made redundant. Where have the mass protests been for that?

When has there ever been talk of a society-wide policy which would forcibly unemploy 15% of the population that are otherwise fully qualified to continue to work in their current jobs? When have citizens ever had to carry papers around to enjoy the benefits of full citizenship?

Let's not pretend that the scenario we find ourselves in falls well within the boundaries of precedent.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#718

Post by seemack »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #711
seemack wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's it. We've successfully answered the question of if it is a peaceful protest.

now we go back to step 1. >I think the real struggle is understanding the degree to which they are peaceful or not. Obviously nothing is black or white. I would also add, the next struggle is what it impact it should have on our reaction, if any. Obviously violence has nothing to do if someone if right or wrong, but it does have to do with if they should be tolerated. At what point do we no longer tolerate protests b…

Ah I see what you were meaning now. I agree, while we could say zero violence in a perfect world, we know that is it rife with conflicting interpretations in the real world.

I agree with the leaders endorsing violence being a clear market for an unacceptable protest.

Beyond that, I would probably leave it to some authority like a judge. They could make the call based on number/severity of incidents, etc.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#719

Post by nintendo1889 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #620
throwaway894345 wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting. I feel like most of my normie acquaintances don’t really know what’s going on much less have strong feelings. In general I get a sense of disillusionment among my normie/nonpartisan friends with respect to the CDC guidance, vaccine mandates, etc.

It's creeping in here, but it just doesn't translate at all to sympathy to the convoy.

You could go live in a concentration camp and get forced experimental treatments, philosophically and metaphorically speaking. Respectfully.

I suggest everyone listen to the darkhorse podcast with Weinstein, Malone, and Kirsch. Kirsch did more than just invent the laser mouse.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#720

Post by nintendo1889 »

defaultname wrote: post #668
petre wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other option is there when the government is tone deaf? They do it in France for other things and it's quite legal when there's a union behind it. And what will the government do if the truckers finally throw in the towel like they did in the UK (or maybe it was Polish and other Eastern European truckers who chose to operate on the mainland after Brexit)?

Every truck union and federation has denounced the protests. Despite the protests, everything is operating logistically completely normally. It isn't "truckers". Some participants brought trucks because they a) have sleeping facilities, b) have big loud horns, c) take a lot of space and are hard to remove. That doesn't make it a trucker protest anymore than someone riding a bicycle there would make it a bicycle prote…

Unions are in bed with the government.
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