Just throwing my 2c into the well, as someone who used to be highly "pro-science" but lost confidence in much of academia and the validity of scientific research in general after starting a PhD and seeing how the sausage is made. The biggest problem science is facing is not an external threat from a rabble of ignorant science deniers, but the complete degradation of quality within the scientific institutions themselv…
> Most research is flawed or useless, but published anyway because it's expedient for the authors to do so. For the record I now know a professor at one of the premier institutions in the world, who is a total fraud. Their research was fraudulent in grad school. Their lab mates tried to raise concerns and nothing happened. That person graduated, with everyone on the committee knowing the issues. Then they got a premi…
Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
711–720 of 970 posts
Re: Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
#712Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your first study does not show what you claim it does, or at least it is a gross simplification. These statistics are at the 10 per million scale i.e 0.001%, which is smaller than fatality rates for unvaccinated under-40s. That is to say that there is a selection bias for people who did not die, and this is a significant oversight in your interpretation.
The argument he/she's making is that specific findings are being suppressed, so nobody has a full and accurate picture. Thus you cannot refute it with a statistical argument that assumes you do have the full picture.
They make the claim "vaccines that pose 50% higher excess risk of myocarditis compared to an infection", and this is a misleading claim.
The risk to an individual of taking the vaccine is more sensibly measured against what happens to somebody who isn't vaccinated, not what happens to somebody who isn't vaccinated and also didn't die.
This is like comparing injuries in people who survive jumping out of a plane with and without a parachute. How important is it if people without a parachute break their arms less often?
Re: Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
#713Earlier quoted context omitted.
Re running the authors code with their data will likely just repeat any methodological issues they had (either accidentally or fraudulently). In medical studies, one level is to reevaluate the data from the same set of patients to see if any bias or errors wasn't included, perhaps with a different or newer statistical idealogy. The best is for the study to be repeated with a fresh set of patient data to see if the un…
"Re running the authors code with their data will likely just repeat any methodological issues they had" Yes, but that's useful too. COVID-19 lockdowns largely kicked off in the west due to an epidemiological model from Imperial College London, written over a period of many years by the now notorious Professor Neil Ferguson. When his team uploaded a pre-print of his paper and started sending it to government minister…
This is literally impossible, because viruses cannot teleport through walls.
Unless there is confusion between the government calling for lockdowns, and people actually doing lockdowns?
Re: Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
#714Re: Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
#715Earlier quoted context omitted.
The meta-study you cite has quite bizarre conclusions. It basically states that isolation behavior is highly effective at preventing Covid deaths, but that lockdowns were a bad predictor of such behavior in people. But, they still seem to attribute huge economic impact to the lockdowns, not the pandemic and natural response (voluntary behavioral changes) to it. Overall it seems that they would have been better served…
Are you sure it states that? Maybe you mean this paragraph: "If this interpretation is true, what Björk et al. (2021) find is that information and signaling is far more important than the strictness of the lockdown. There may be other interpretations, but the point is that studies focusing on timing cannot differentiate between these interpretations. However, if lockdowns have a notable effect, we should see this eff…
Re: Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
#716Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not JRE i'm listening too, it's his guests. In that instance, a doctor who was part of the team who invented RNA-based vaccines. Any problem with that ?
> who was part of the team who invented RNA-based vaccines. Yeah, no: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w
Re: Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
#717Just throwing my 2c into the well, as someone who used to be highly "pro-science" but lost confidence in much of academia and the validity of scientific research in general after starting a PhD and seeing how the sausage is made. The biggest problem science is facing is not an external threat from a rabble of ignorant science deniers, but the complete degradation of quality within the scientific institutions themselv…
While you might not have enjoyed your stint the sausage factory, sausages have a long, successful history. Handling meat safely is hard, and it has been done with varying levels of success over the years, but historically sausages weren't much worse than any of the other meats despite the nature of their creation, and with modern food standards they are pretty much safe when handled properly (of course proper handling depends on the type of sausage).
If you didn't like what you saw and, as a result, decided not to eat any more sausages, this seems more like a gut response on your end than any particularly deep insight into sausage production. People are generally aware that some of the steps in the process aren't nice to look at, but they judge the product based on the end result.
Re: Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
#718Earlier quoted context omitted.
The meta-study you cite has quite bizarre conclusions. It basically states that isolation behavior is highly effective at preventing Covid deaths, but that lockdowns were a bad predictor of such behavior in people. But, they still seem to attribute huge economic impact to the lockdowns, not the pandemic and natural response (voluntary behavioral changes) to it. Overall it seems that they would have been better served…
Are you sure it states that? Maybe you mean this paragraph: "If this interpretation is true, what Björk et al. (2021) find is that information and signaling is far more important than the strictness of the lockdown. There may be other interpretations, but the point is that studies focusing on timing cannot differentiate between these interpretations. However, if lockdowns have a notable effect, we should see this eff…
> First, people respond to dangers outside their door. When a pandemic rages, people believe in social distancing regardless of what the government mandates. So, we believe that Allen (2021) is right, when he concludes, “The ineffectiveness [of lockdowns] stemmed from individual changes in behavior: either non-compliance or behavior that mimicked lockdowns.”
> Third, even if lockdowns are successful in initially reducing the spread of COVID-19, the behavioral response may counteract the effect completely, as people respond to the lower risk by changing behavior
Since it is an obvious consequence of the germ theory of disease that isolation stops the spread of disease, the only real question is if lockdowns are efficient at enforcing isolation (and in what conditions, with what costs etc). At best, the paper concludes that they are not, and that government propaganda about the risks of the disease works as well or better.
> You're attempting to refute a meta-analysis of studies looking at all the data with the example of a single country. That's meaningless. A single data point can falsify a theory but it cannot prove a theory. To prove lockdowns work there has to be a consistent impact of the policy.
I would say the null hypothesis would be that lockdowns do work, by relatively simple, almost mechanical, principles (lockdown forces isolation, isolation means the virus can't physically get from one person to another).
And there is basically no country that hasn't seen significant isolation that did well in the pandemic. Whether that isolation was caused by efective, if perhaps draconic lockdowns (such as in China or Vietnam) or by cultural norms and self preservation (such as in Finland or Norway), this remains true.
The real exceptions are countries that successfully isolated themselves from the outside world, and thereafter isolated only those carrying the virus, through broder closures and strict quarantine requirements plus testing - Taiwan, New Zealand are examples of such.
For this type of response, using broad statistical studies that equate very different ground-level phenomena (lockdowns varied wildly in form and in the degree of compliance, but the paper ignores all that in its quantitative data) to make it look good on a graph are mostly misleading - but what more can you expect from three economists dabbling their hand at epidemiology and sociology?
Re: Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
#719Earlier quoted context omitted.
That all sounds disturbingly like you kinda are okay with Joe Rogan and Bret Weinstein spreading nonsense about how vaccines are killing people and how ivermectin is better than vaccination.
Joe Rogan doesn't spread anything. He interviews experts in the field and listens to what they have to say. Currently everyone is angry because he interviewed Robert Malone, the inventor of mRNA vaccines. You can read about Robert Malone's contributions here: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w Robert Malone's bio "Dr. Robert Malone is the inventor of the nine original mRNA vaccine patents, which were…
Imagine this in any other field. It is not exactly reasonable to separately bring both a Nazi and a non-Nazi and claim to be impartial. In that scenario, most likely the normal person would sound relatively ambivalent, while the Nazi would be extremely agitated and emphatic that urgent action must be taken.
Re: Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online
#720Just throwing my 2c into the well, as someone who used to be highly "pro-science" but lost confidence in much of academia and the validity of scientific research in general after starting a PhD and seeing how the sausage is made. The biggest problem science is facing is not an external threat from a rabble of ignorant science deniers, but the complete degradation of quality within the scientific institutions themselv…
There's a well known paper from 2005 - "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False" John P. A. Ioannidis https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124 Assuming that that paper is not false, it highlights lots of areas/reasons why things can go wrong. Nonetheless, flawed as it is, the 'scientific method' is the best we've got. "How do you get people to discover reliable knowledge without getting sidetracked by bias…
So the solution is to somehow decouple it again. Give universities a blank cheque to employ scientists to work on whatever for sciences sake, not for business. Sure, that's obviously open to exploitation in a new way, but we only need one major discovery for the whole thing to be worth it which we can't get with small incremental research.