With such an overwhelmingly negative response in the comments on these things, you have to wonder who actually supports this stuff and how is it possible that such a small group yields so much power
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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
711–720 of 748 posts
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#712I'm perpetually perplexed at why some people seem to think that lowering the standards is going to help anyone. Do they not realise the source of all scientific and technical advancement is really the result of a minority of high achievers, and that by trying to "flatten" this inequality and effectively make everyone equally stupid, they are also going to be affected negatively? applies social justice principles to m…
What if you invert your thesis. Sooner doesn’t necessarily imply “higher standard”: 1 - American school teach the alphabet before grade 1, and push kids to read early. German schools don’t even teach the alphabet until grade 1' yet by the end of that year the reading level of the kids is the same as US kids at the end of grade 1, or better. German Pädagogin justify this by saying there is some neural development issu…
1. userbinator was discussing the impact of exceptional people on society, and you're citing average behaviors of a people in one narrow educational sphere. Nikola Tesla has zero relationship with the middle of any curve.
2. Children are quite literally extensions of their parents. Their intelligence, beliefs, genetics, et cetera are a product of their nature (100% parental) and nurture (varies, but usually significantly attributed to their parents). Giving your child tutoring is no more cheating than when you pick up a book for yourself. Your children are you.
3. userbinator was in no way criticizing the opening up of opportunities to achieve equality by elevating all people to genius status. He, and most people here, are critical of handicapping the gifted/lucky/affluent/whatever in order to achieve parity at a lower level. The fact is it doesn't matter if you learn AI programming because you're so gifted the knowledge just flows into you easily, or if your parents spent $1mm a year teaching it to you. We need AI programmers, and having none because you thought it was unfair for people to get that education when others can't is nuts.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#713Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A disgrace for education but a win for educational communism. I was under the impression that (actual) communist educational systems were geared predominantly toward the most advanced students, rather than the other way around. Cranking out prizewinning physicists, mathematicians, and chess grand-masters at a somewhat greater than expected rate.
"Educational communism" in that it seeks to eliminate inequality (in education) by reducing everyone to zero, just as communism sought to eliminate inequality (in wealth) by reducing everyone to zero. Not "educational communism" in the sense of educational systems modeled on those of communist countries. The analogy is from "if I can't afford a car, then nobody should be allowed to have a car" to "if I can't understa…
Exactly. I have no idea how people can’t differentiate between educational communism and education systems that were implemented in communist states. Was my wording too confusing?
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#714Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed. A disgrace for education but a win for educational communism. It’s a good thing the US can import talent because California’s students are being trained to be cognitively lazy. How will these children fare in a society that is getting more technologically advanced, dynamic and complex by the day without the problem solving tools to handle it? I can’t wait to find out.
> A disgrace for education but a win for educational communism. I was under the impression that (actual) communist educational systems were geared predominantly toward the most advanced students, rather than the other way around. Cranking out prizewinning physicists, mathematicians, and chess grand-masters at a somewhat greater than expected rate.
Read my comment again. I made no mention of education systems implemented in communist states. I said educational communism, education where everyone is pulled towards the mean no matter their individual effort or talent.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#715Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only thing distributed along the bell curve is adults who are willing to help the kids. Yes for some kids it will come pretty easy, even at very young ages, but even very young children can learn these concepts if you would just spend some time teaching it to them. When you have a system set up to force one adult to teach 30+ children you will never be able to spend the time required to ensure everyone gets the c…
> but even very young children can learn these concepts if you would just spend some time teaching it to them. Many decades of cognitive science disagree with you. See Piaget for one of the earlier researchers on this topic. Even though his original ideas have been refuted or refined, the basic premises of his ideas are still prominent among the large group of modern researchers that some people dub neo-Piagetians.
Why would we "see" Piaget if his work, as you correctly note, his theories have been refuted? Educationalists, who have never personally and successfully taught anythingmarried simply wrong theories of learning, are a good 50% of the problem.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#716Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're missing the point. The purpose of public school is to provide a basic education. If you want to do more work, or your parents want you to study more, you're free to do so. In your very own example, you went to a private school and did well. That's great, that's what's supposed to happen. What's currently happening in public schools is that too many resources are being allocated to the over achievers and not en…
The point of public school is to educate the society. I still get a return on my investment (taxes) when some kid invents the new Google. I also do if that kid just works at McDonald's. The problem is treating everyone like they are the same and not as individuals. Let's also mention that education is one of the best ways to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Advanced and higher education shouldn't only be available to…
> I want children getting the best education that they can get.
Again, the funding is not unlimited. We're sacrificing some less than average students' learning for the sake of the small minority of above average students.
> Let's also mention that education is one of the best ways to climb the socioeconomic ladder.
Currently, that is true. But, does it have to be true? Should the only way to leave poverty be an above average education? There used to be plenty of blue collar jobs that paid a comfortable middle class wage, now there's not. You know the guy that started KFC? Did he go to college? No, he dropped out in the 7th grade. You used to be able to work hard and be successful.
> No matter how you frame it, I want children getting the best education that they can get. So if they're ready to achieve more, give it to them. We all, as a society, benefit.
Not every kid wants or needs more education.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#717I'm perpetually perplexed at why some people seem to think that lowering the standards is going to help anyone. Do they not realise the source of all scientific and technical advancement is really the result of a minority of high achievers, and that by trying to "flatten" this inequality and effectively make everyone equally stupid, they are also going to be affected negatively? applies social justice principles to m…
What if you invert your thesis. Sooner doesn’t necessarily imply “higher standard”: 1 - American school teach the alphabet before grade 1, and push kids to read early. German schools don’t even teach the alphabet until grade 1' yet by the end of that year the reading level of the kids is the same as US kids at the end of grade 1, or better. German Pädagogin justify this by saying there is some neural development issu…
We began algebra in 5th grade in India. In much humbler circumstances.
Luckily, our teachers made it clear that math was about effort, not skills, talents, or parents.
We were all expected to practice a lot of math, including algebra, until we figured it out.
And it worked - the ‘gifted’ students needed less practice, everyone else needed more practice. But by 6th grade, everybody passed algebra and figured out the basics. By 9th grade, when we were doing pre-Calc, it was unthinkable that someone in our class couldn’t do algebra.
Applying ‘Social Justice’ to math is simply the continued dumbing down of California. To what end, I can’t figure out.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#718I'm perpetually perplexed at why some people seem to think that lowering the standards is going to help anyone. Do they not realise the source of all scientific and technical advancement is really the result of a minority of high achievers, and that by trying to "flatten" this inequality and effectively make everyone equally stupid, they are also going to be affected negatively? applies social justice principles to m…
What if you invert your thesis. Sooner doesn’t necessarily imply “higher standard”: 1 - American school teach the alphabet before grade 1, and push kids to read early. German schools don’t even teach the alphabet until grade 1' yet by the end of that year the reading level of the kids is the same as US kids at the end of grade 1, or better. German Pädagogin justify this by saying there is some neural development issu…
This comment would make sense if the debate was over whether or not students should be forced to take algebra in 8th grade. But it's actually about whether students should be allowed to take algebra in 8th grade.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#719Earlier quoted context omitted.
Prove me wrong.
That's not how reason (or falsifiability) works.
Apparently I don't have a STEM degree or couldn't teach a child which could flourish in such a program at my dinner table, so I was waiting for a subject matter expert to correct my statement.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#720Earlier quoted context omitted.
Page 7 is where they completely lose me. "Students are required to “show their work” in standardized, prescribed ways" is a manifestation of white supremacy? If you click on that item, it takes you to a page where they suggest non-standard classroom activities like "Have students create TikTok videos, silent films, or cartoons about mathematical concepts or procedures." I'm pretty open minded about education pedagogy…
> "Students are required to “show their work” in standardized, prescribed ways" is a manifestation of white supremacy? “White supremacy” is an accurate but excessively polarizing term; “cultural favoritism in favor of status quo elites, whose preferences and cultural practices are encoded in the prescribed methods of demonstration” would perhaps both be less inflammatory and easier to see the connections between the…
Completely agree with the polarizing nature of that term and your less inflammatory description. However, I am still unconvinced that lowering the bar or creating a "toy version" of mathematics expressed in different ways is the appropriate solution.
I find it akin to forcing all K-12 students learning computer science to stay on Scratch and block-based programming (which is easily accessible to everyone), simply because the students taking more advanced programming courses who have a software developer for a parent will be unfairly advantaged over the ones who don't. I know people who have had all the resources available and wasted most of them, and others who had few resources available but took every one of them.
At the end of the day, I'd rather have the opportunity to hire a great software developer who has been developing their skills since a young age, rather than someone who was intentionally kept from real-world computer science until college in the name of equity. Similarly, I'd rather see prodigious mathematicians cultivated from a young age - I cannot imagine a situation where the next Ramanujan [1] is created by the California public education system.
By the way, I really appreciate the illuminating alternate description you provided of white supremacy - I hope you don't mind if I start repeating that one :)