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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#711

Post by hatware »

snarf21 wrote: post #636
hatware wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. What is it, day 600 something of "just two weeks" to stop the spread? Oh wait, that's just the _other side's_ fault for not following the rules as well as you did. From where I sit, it seems like a lot of people are having a hard time admitting that shutting down the world's economy may have been the wrong choice, hindsight.

We're about to find out one way or the other in the US. Hospitals are full, ERs are full, ICUs are full and it is likely going to stay that way all fall/winter. This has two consequences: 1) There are no beds and/or staff for people coming in with heart attacks or from car crashes or other solvable issues. 2) Fatigue is building on hospital healthcare workers. They are being berated by family members of dying un-vacc…

Hospitals, ERs, and ICUs are not full in Texas, Florida, or Colorado. They never were.

All those field hospitals that were stood up in 2021 across the US have been torn down because they were not needed.

I don't know about you, but it looks more to me like all we are seeing is the breakdown of crony-capitalism. It's not a coincidence that the vaccines are some of the most profitable medical products ever produced.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#712

Post by bob33212 »

version_five wrote: post #83
acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

> I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. No doubt this will be the case for some. So, you've found a logical flaw in people's stated reasons for not wanting a vaccine. How does that help anything? In these kinds of debates, the actual goals or beliefs of both sides often differ from what they say. For example, the government being able…

On average, humans have a need to feel safe and part of a tribe. If you can convince yourself that your tribe is correct and that it is best to eat boiled eggs from the big end first and that the people who eat boiled eggs from the small end first are wrong, you will feel better about your place in the world. If you don't know if the big end or the little end is best you will feel uneasy with the world.

Obviously there are exceptions. Some people can objectively look at the situation and come to the conclusion that there are good reasons to start on both sides, and it really depends on your priorities. But those people are not part of the noise, it is the people who are desperate to feel part of a group who are the loudest.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#713

Post by Lochleg »

DangerousPie wrote: post #485
albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

There hasn't been a virus in the past that needed a 100% vaccination rate. This one isn't that special. We just have different standards.

There are going to be some people and even large swathes of some countries that are never going to get vaccinated. If everyone took safety and science seriously, there probably would still be a control group in place. There were probably numerous people in the control group that had little to no risk of death nor complications even if they caught the virus and had to be quarantined. Ultimately, the vaccines will never meet the "gold standard" that Fauci and others applied to all other potential treatments.

Also, if vaccines become mandatory, the systems in place to address vaccine damage and liability need to be reformed. The excuse about scary yet isolated incidents having a disproportionate impact on vaccine adoption rates would no longer be valid.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#714

Post by halfjoking »

cglace wrote: post #540
argvargc wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The facebook posts typically reference one of several organised groups of hundreds of working doctors, some of whom claim to have directly observed high levels of concerningly-serious adverse reaction, even among small sample groups (eg, small town doctors who vaccinated many in the town). If a doctor is recommending you don't take it based on their experience and expertise, it carries a bit more weight than "somethi…

"mass walk-outs" I highly doubt it. "Minds are not won by force." How is it by force? They still have agency in their decision: Job or jab.

Your Honor, I never force any of my employees to give me a blowjob.

I just let her know that she would be fired if she chose not to suck my penis. In my view this is a matter of public health and safety. Everyone is sick of these restrictive office measures, so the only way to get through this situation is regular blowjobs given to management for stress relief. Please understand we don't want to do this, but in these trying times it's important everyone does their part and gets on their knees.

Same logic about "not forcing anyone" applied to sexual assault wouldn't go well.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#715

Post by AnimalMuppet »

kristjansson wrote: post #709

All of these comments following the pattern "I'm vaccinated but [insert vaccine hesitancy content here]" sound quite a lot like the "I'm a democrat but [insert pro-trump content]" comments that abounded in the last cycle. I don't know what to make of it. Is this a rhetorical strategy that really works? A tic of people experiencing cognitive dissonance?

I think it's "please don't reflexively ignore the opinion that I am about to express, which is the kind of opinion that people on the other side reflexively ignore".

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#716

Post by mdp2021 »

SantalBlush wrote: post #179
deeg wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"mostly meaningless" is an overstatement. The FDA oversees a lot of drug applications and gets it right a vast majority of the time. No human endeavor is perfect; if there's evidence that 20% of approvals are wrong then I'll agree that there's a problem.

>No human endeavor is perfect This should be posted to the front page of the site. I get so tired of seeing comments pointing out some flaw in an institution and concluding that the institution is therefore useless. It really is lazy thinking.

I think the point is more about putting "authority" into perspective.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#717

Post by mikepurvis »

mike00632 wrote: post #616
jboggan wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe." Yes, except there is an established process for quantifying "clear for a while now" and it involves sufficient time and control groups. That process isn't being followed and it is concerning for a number of reasons, including the effect of political pressure on expedited drug approvals in the future now that this precedent is being set. Th…

This is wrong in two big ways: 1. The FDA requires six months of clinical data to establish safety before FDA approval. The normal requirements for FDA approval absolutely were followed 2. With longer-term studied it's not like we don't know anything about them until it's complete. Data is released on a rolling basis so we know how the results of the studies so far, and (surprise!) data so far say it's safe.

And in the cases where there have been question marks that have come up about safety (AZ, JJ), even with miniscule likelihood, those have quickly been withdrawn.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#718

Post by ortusdux »

howinteresting wrote: post #177
ortusdux wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. I want to know when insurance companies will start adjusting rates.

At least in the US, it would be illegal for them to do so under the ACA.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210823033710/https://www.nytim...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#719

Post by bob33212 »

mdp2021 wrote: post #687
bart_spoon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which still wouldn't be a logical argument, given that the same applies regarding long-term health outcomes regarding getting sick with Covid. But I suspect you are right.

It is not illogical: those people have two fears instead of one. Some chance of high probability of damages, vs full chance of low probability of damages. This is why numbers are important... Fuzzy equation members like 'some', 'high' and 'low' are inadequate for this decision making.

Where do you draw the line? Should we wait 50 years to find out if the vaccine or Covid have worse long term effects?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#720

Post by the_doctah »

all2 wrote: post #683
abnry wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main non-conspiracy reasons fall into these categories: - Fear, hesitancy about potential long term risks. - Resistance to government mandating a vaccine (freedom, low trust in government, other options not being considered) - Resistance to the cultural paradigm of "un-vaccinated = bad/deplorable person" - Belief that the risk of COVID is already low (at least for them)

I'll add to this the absolutely weird monologue that is typically used when trying to convince people to get the vaccine: they pay money, they give away free things, they recite rappers (?!). But its good for you . Followed by demonizing anyone who chooses not to get it. It is literally a carrot/stick routine. Do what I want? Get a carrot. Don't do what I want? I'll beat you with the stick of public shaming. This sit…

Reddit already has site-wide moderation enforcing removal of anything deemed "Covid misinformation" or really, in my experience, anything that could be considered anti-vaxx.

I posted in an /r/NFL thread saying that asking every single QB if they are vaccinated, and then frothing at the mouth when they decline to answer, is mostly nothing but a witch hunt.

I received a permanent ban with the message from the mod "anti-vaxx moron". I'm not anti-vaxx, and I'm not a moron, but this is generally concerning behavior about the state of discussion surrounding Covid and the censorship taking place online. You aren't allowed to have an opinion that isn't "Vaxx up and mask up and harass anyone who doesn't".

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