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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#711

Post by washadjeffmad »

junon wrote: post #596
azinman2 wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's wrong with this? Personally I'm very happy to see it. The idea that you make tons and tons of money by what America has worked hard to offer you and then you want to skip town because of taxes? Taxes that help pay for all the advantages that got you that wealth in the first place? Good for Congress for trying to prevent this.

Ehhh not sure about that. America doesn't have high taxes compared to many other places to live. This isn't as clear cut as I think you think it is.

Not to derail, but surely you're aware that tax-funded services taken for granted in those "many other places" are separate fees in the US.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#712

Post by kingosticks »

simonh wrote: post #316
api wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK if you live in a country like Canada with higher taxes you still have to file to maintain citizenship but you end up paying zero since you can deduct what you paid in your home country. This would apply to people relocating to countries with a lower tax base. In that case you have to renounce.

You can still get caught out. Taxes in the UK are generally higher than in the US, but Boris Johnson still got hit with a US tax bill when he inherited a flat in London.

And any ISAs (or similar tax free savings things) you hold are fully taxable by the US. Joy.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#713

Post by tacocataco »

Talanes wrote: post #490
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, if you are technical enough to frequent this web site and you think $108K is a lot of money, you are being underpaid. Sorry, what? Exactly how much technical ability does it take to frequent a website? You have the strangest delusion I've seen on HN and that's saying something.

To further illustrate that point: I'm a barista.

I work food service.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#714

Post by didntknowya »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #502
fmajid wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some are "accidental Americans" like UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, born in the US, who discovered as a US citizen he had to pay capital gains taxes when he sold his London apartment. Australia requires its parliamentarians to have only Australian citizenship and some discovered for the same reason they were not eligible. Furthermore, the burden of FATCA is sufficiently onerous that many banks etc. just refuse to d…

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson aka Boris Johnson is not as clumsy as his haircut makes him look to be. The guy keeps fit, doesn't look like Rambo but he is fit with a bit a sticky build. He is intelligent, he survived the muddy waters of politics, affairs and is prime minister. Of course he always knew he is American dual citizen, a person like him does not handle an apartment sale himself, he has handlers and ad…

hah yes this. the buffoon act really makes people underestimate- and if i dare say, sympathize with him. but he's much more competent (at getting what he wants) than people give him credit for.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#715

Post by ttyprintk »

penguin_booze wrote: post #368

> For most countries, if you are a citizen but don’t reside there, you aren’t taxed in that country. Is it true? To my knowledge, if one's home and the resident country have double taxation avoidance agreement, the citizen end up paying the maximum of the tax rate amongst the two. Is it the case that the US doesn't have DTAA at all, or do US citizens always get taxed twice?

USA does have DTAA with maybe 60 countries. Those mutual agreements are based on income from personal services. I think a lot of the comments in this thread are drawing conclusions about specific sources of income:

- there’s an exit tax, might be millions $ for the top-tier. You might give your money to family members or a trust before planning to pay it.

- there’s capital gains tax. This means your income is not from personal services and instead from just being wealthy. Looks to me like a lot of the comments here are defending the rights of people with that lifestyle. Those people do not need DTAA.

- reported income from personal services (labor) is what you’re talking about. The bad experiences in this thread are real, but DTAA is meant to make life easier for professors and touring musicians, etc.

- unreported income is indistinguishable from money laundering. The underworld is a very libertarian place, a sore spot for some in this thread.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#717

Post by aerostable_slug »

1024core wrote: post #442
aerostable_slug wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don't have a MEU sitting off conflict zones waiting to leap into action. The United States will literally send the Marines to save a citizen. A person from, say, Ecuador probably doesn't enjoy the same amount of risk coverage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_expeditionary_unit

You've been watching too many movies, I'm afraid. The reality is (and it happened in Yemen recently) that the US will just shrug and tell you to go ask some other country for help. No MEUs set foot in Yemen when things went south there.

The last I heard, the Houthis let the Americans go.

Navy SEALs from the Navy SMU parachuted into Africa in the dead of night to save a missionary kidnapped from a known conflict zone, killing 6 of 7 combatants (one wonders if they let the last guy go to spread Fear amongst his fellows). Perhaps some of you had different experiences (and/or perhaps the State Department really, really wanted you to leave), but that doesn't erase the rescue of Americans such as this man:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nigeria_hostage_rescue

We sent the best of the best in to save him. Not the JV team, the varsity. Before you whine, ask yourselves if perhaps there was some motive to telling you that nobody would help you if you didn't leave. Maybe they were trying to manage their risk.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#718

Post by aerostable_slug »

AdamN wrote: post #448
aerostable_slug wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don't have a MEU sitting off conflict zones waiting to leap into action. The United States will literally send the Marines to save a citizen. A person from, say, Ecuador probably doesn't enjoy the same amount of risk coverage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_expeditionary_unit

I remember being in Kenya before the election that followed post-election violence previously (scores dead). Ambassador said point blank, "You need to take care of yourselves. We only have a handful of marines and they'll be spending their time protecting or destroying classified documents."

Perhaps that was their way of trying to get you to leave so they didn't have to send anyone after you.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#719

Post by aerostable_slug »

ciguy wrote: post #538
aerostable_slug wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don't have a MEU sitting off conflict zones waiting to leap into action. The United States will literally send the Marines to save a citizen. A person from, say, Ecuador probably doesn't enjoy the same amount of risk coverage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_expeditionary_unit

No, they absolutely will not. I won't go into details but I can tell you from personal experience this is unequivocally false. The USA will in most cases do exactly nothing for their citizens in distress. Even the local US embassies will refuse to get involved in almost all cases. You know who did get involved in our situation when I was with a group of mixed citizens from USA, UK, EU etc...? The UK and Denmark. Fran…

Except the Marines and/or SEALs do come to save people. Perhaps there are political complications you aren't mentioning. Perhaps you got into trouble in a nation with a halfway-functioning government (so diplomacy trumps men with rifles).

It is provably true the US does send armed forces in to save citizens, and it is obviously true that many other countries simply lack the ability to do so. That isn't a license to be stupid, but it is a differentiator between countries with true power projection capabilities and those who don't have the same.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#720

Post by 1024core »

aerostable_slug wrote: post #717
1024core wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've been watching too many movies, I'm afraid. The reality is (and it happened in Yemen recently) that the US will just shrug and tell you to go ask some other country for help. No MEUs set foot in Yemen when things went south there.

The last I heard, the Houthis let the Americans go. Navy SEALs from the Navy SMU parachuted into Africa in the dead of night to save a missionary kidnapped from a known conflict zone, killing 6 of 7 combatants (one wonders if they let the last guy go to spread Fear amongst his fellows). Perhaps some of you had different experiences (and/or perhaps the State Department really, really wanted you to leave), but that doe…

> to save a missionary

That could have been just Trump pandering to his base.

Moreover, from your link:

> Additionally American aid worker Jeffery Woodke was kidnapped from Abalak in October 2016, and is believed to be held in Mali.

How come no SEALs have parachuted to rescue Jeffery yet, huh? Reinforces my theory that it was just election-time pandering by Trump.

You're telling me that the US will do that for every Tom, Dick and Harry who gets caught by some $EVILDOER anywhere on this planet? Fat chance!

> The last I heard, the Houthis let the Americans go.

But how did they get out? Who picked them up?

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