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Coinbase S-1

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Re: Coinbase S-1

#711

Post by dang »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #679
dang wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, but that's a much different question and is strongly conditioned by where Bitcoin and cryptocurrency are in the hype cycle (I'm using that term empirically, not normatively). You'll find at least that much negativity about other technologies and startups that have gotten to similar stages of (let's call it) ultrasuccess. Just look at the threads on Airbnb or Uber, for example. They're so vitriolic and repetit…

There tends to be ethical concerns as things get this big that apply to all of: Bitcoin, Airbnb, Uber. Try Dropbox or even Digital Ocean for a more loved company/idea.

'Ethical concerns' only covers a subset of these cases and the phenomenon is noticeably similar across the entire set, so I don't think ethics is a convincing explanation.

People reach for the handiest hammer, but it doesn't follow that the hammer is driving the hammering. Ethical concerns are the best hammer, of course, because then one's own motives are unimpeachable; but failing that, you'll see comments about the business being shitty for other reasons—"it used to be good but they've been declining for years and I can't even use it anymore" is one, and "how is this a viable business, look at those financials, doesn't anybody care about profit anymore god this world is insane" is another.

I don't believe Dropbox threads are generally friendly to Dropbox anymore, and I'm pretty sure Digital Ocean has been on the rack here too. Today's thread was a noticeable exception. Most S-1 threads are pretty cranky in general.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#712

Post by leppr »

elliekelly wrote: post #701
whiskyant wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, it's been almost two months since I've originally messaged support about being unable to access my account. They said they would schedule a security interview, then never followed through. I don't know how it's legal for a company to lock your account w/ funds with no explanation for this long.

A regulation-free market at work!

In a regulation-free market Coinbase would not exist or better alternatives would just be forked into existence.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#713

Post by xadhominemx »

ghayes wrote: post #653
xadhominemx wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee you coinbase stock is going to be highly correlated to the price of Bitcoin.

I would disagree. Coinbase's value is based on volume and volatility. If anything, stable values are the worst time for exchanges, as experienced in early 2019.

For a normal exchange yes, but for a Bitcoin exchange the long term revenue is going to depend on future interest in Bitcoin which is highly correlated to current price

Re: Coinbase S-1

#714

Post by dcolkitt »

xwolfi wrote: post #685
dcolkitt wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. But much better for domestic consumers to get the best prices and highest quality. I don't care if a Chinese or American magnate becomes a billionaire. I care that millions of middle-class Americans get the best deal possible.

Well I'm in China myself and while I agree I think it might not produce the effect you want. First, ideologies and absolute rules dont work because as soon as you know them, you work to bypass them to your advantage. With that in mind, what do you think of the current situation? The US maximize price based optimization (get the best deal) while China maximize population occupancy (everyone must work, nobody is educat…

I don't think this is an accurate characterization. The US still has massive manufacturing output, that's still growing, and recently reached a record high.[1]

The US still imports a lot of manufactured goods, but that's a consequence of it being competitive in many other service-fields such as software, entertainment, financial services, corporate management, and healthcare technology.

China may assemble the iPhones, but America is designing and coding them. To me that makes it seem like China is the much more co-dependent party in the relationship than the US.

[1]https://www.nam.org/state-manufacturing-data/2019-united-sta...

Re: Coinbase S-1

#715

Post by ldbooth »

uncletammy wrote: post #504
ldbooth wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you anchor a financial network on BTC stability? (If it achieves stability). IDK.. Total aside..I imagine this utopian energy-financial system future where we overbuild our renewable grid and instead of storing energy we discharge the (green energy) overproduction into crypto mining operations. There are some dudes already on it, it's a new angle to grid power flow modeling.

On your aside, I'm amazed that smaller energy producers have not already become crypto miners. It would be so easy and incredibly lucrative. They could simply flip a switch any time the sale price of their generated power is less than the price of the coins their mining facilities could produce. They would get an instant profit increase. Almost all the costs associated with mining are fixed.

You are on point there - No one's got to it yet is the best explanation: YC?!? It's happening at the Utility scale with commercial miners, esp. with merchant (uncontracted) energy. Small producers (residential , commercial solar) just need an easy button solution without having to learn the crypto details. I don't know what that threshold kWh price is, but demistify that and one can define target markets across the US in one broad stroke with EIA utility pricing data. The formula in a prepackaged product with an app seems to be the only trick. Then get it in the hands of residential installers and boom. It'd probably sell like (can I say it on HN) liquid crack.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#716

Post by dang »

wpietri wrote: post #708
bhupy wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major ecological harm This is _really_ debatable. By most measures, the vast majority of Bitcoin mining is done via renewables: https://www.iea.org/commentaries/bitcoin-energy-use-mined-th... "Around 60% to 70% of bitcoin is currently mined in China, where more than two-thirds of electricity generation comes from coal. But bitcoin mining facilities are concentrated in remote areas of China with rich hydro or wind r…

Large-scale hydro is major ecological harm. And even for something less damaging, that's still massive energy use that could be used for something else. Bitcoin is displacing other activity. I don't get the impression that you understand value at all, except as a stick to beat people with in arguments. Given the volume, glibness, and excess confidence with which you write, trying to argue you into understanding it do…

Please don't do this sort of tit-for-tat flamewar on HN. I know it's extremely difficult not to get sucked in (believe me, I know), but when the comments get to this stage, the path of curious conversation was abandoned a long time ago. We're trying for something else here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Coinbase S-1

#717

Post by dang »

bhupy wrote: post #709
wpietri wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large-scale hydro is major ecological harm. And even for something less damaging, that's still massive energy use that could be used for something else. Bitcoin is displacing other activity. I don't get the impression that you understand value at all, except as a stick to beat people with in arguments. Given the volume, glibness, and excess confidence with which you write, trying to argue you into understanding it do…

I'll step over and forgive the personal attacks because I'd like to think that I've refrained from doing the same with you. > Large-scale hydro is major ecological harm. And even for something less damaging, that's still massive energy use that could be used for something else. Bitcoin is displacing other activity. Sure, but you or I don't get to decide how people spend their time, or where they focus their activitie…

Please don't do this sort of tit-for-tat flamewar on HN. I know it's extremely difficult not to get sucked in (believe me, I know), but when the comments get to this stage, the path of curious conversation was abandoned a long time ago. We're trying for something else here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Coinbase S-1

#718

Post by ldbooth »

otterley wrote: post #556
ldbooth wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

regarding the transaction cost, wells fargo charges me $15 to receive a wired payment. If the use case is only large gold like transactions, the BTC use case makes more sense. Tbd.. shake it out.

Most banks don't charge their customers to process incoming wire transfers. You're saving $5 when you could be saving $15.

It might be international, I'm not sure but I blame myself for sticking with Wells after their fake account fiasco. I just love that stagecoach logo...

Re: Coinbase S-1

#720

Post by jsutton »

xirbeosbwo1234 wrote: post #606
jsutton wrote: post #593

I find it interesting (sad, actually) that most other S-1 posts on here are congratulatory for the most part, giving kudos to the teams (look at the DO one today). However, when it comes to anything crypto related, the emotions really come out. It's all "bitcoin/crypto is useless, doesn't solve any problem, waste of talent." For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto…

What sort of engineer ignores inefficiency on the order of six to eight orders of magnitude? Being a hacker is about creativity and innovation, sure, but it's also about knowing when something is total junk and should be discarded. If you heard people lambasting COBOL or CORBA or Windows 95 when they were new, would you criticize them for their "lack of vision"? Even if I were optimistic about cryptocurrency, I would…

Being an engineer does not exclusively mean you are focused on efficiency. It means determining the balance of reliability, functionality, efficiency, and a wealth of other factors as applied to the specific use case.

Bitcoin is not made to be efficient, it's made to be a self-sufficient decentralized monetary system. Decentralization isn't efficient compared to centralization, but it offers other benefits that are powerful.

The whole point is not to get rid of banks and replace them with crypto. It's about building a system that's more democratized, robust, and resistant to loss of purchasing power over time. Bitcoin has done that well, and it's the cornerstone of the new decentralized financial infrastructure.

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