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Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

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Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#711
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your expectations are not shipping with many bugs and avoiding serious blow ups then yes that's a fine way to do things. And if we're happy relying on a single SWE (what happens if you get hit by the proverbial bus?) then yes that's fine too. And if we never need to scale then SSHing into 100s of boxes is fine too. Most of my job is replacing stuff like you describe. And it's definitely not fine. Nobody knows how…

Agreed, but who can you really get mad at? The lone, inevitably overworked SWE that was asked to shoulder the entire burden of the business he worked for? Or management, who most likely denied that SWE the support he wanted? In my last job I'd advocate tirelessly for unit tests, code reviews, all that. And it was always denied. Ironic given that the other engineers I worked with were MEs, who had notebooks full of pr…

> In my last job I'd advocate tirelessly for unit tests, code reviews, all that. And it was always denied.

My approach to that is to not ask, just write the unit tests anyways, ask a peer to code review without management permission, etc.

We are professionals. Part of that responsibility is to know the best practices for our craft and put them into practice.

We also need to be good at getting the requirements from the technical and non-technical people we work with, and being able to show consistent, incremental progress, and a willingness to quickly change direction when the requirements change.

But we do not need to get input or permission for the process we use to produce those results.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#712
post #237
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to do just the fun stuff because that's not what makes good software. It's the unit tests and pull reviews and such that make the software reliable and covering all the niggling edge cases. And that ultimately is what makes a piece of software good.

I don’t really expect just to do the fun stuff at work, but modern technology seems to progressively burn me out more and more. I was drawn to software at a time when it seemed like we had control over things. With the advent of the cloud I feel like that control keeps slipping away more and more. Kubernetes is my new nemesis. I seem to be in the minority that perceives it as unnecessarily complex for most tasks. Som…

> I seem to be in the minority that perceives it as unnecessarily complex for most tasks.

My boss recently introduced Kubernetes to our software deployment.

The first thing he said, though, is if you don't absolutely need Kubernetes, don't use it. It is extremely complicated and finicky and difficult to deploy correctly, and can bite you in subtle ways.

Then he went on to describe, for our problems, how Kubernetes was absolutely necessary to scale without constant manual intervention and configuration and deployment processes consuming our time.

I appreciated that he had thoroughly thought through the problem before adding more complexity.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#713
post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point, laced with justified indignation. As a graybeard, I've seen multiple generations of "how to do software" and the most recent are the least fun. A lot of this is driven by the agile approach. It's tailor-made for dev burnout: from the endless tight cycles that force people into an infinite loop of productivity with scant satisfaction that comes with "completion", to all of the tools and philosop…

I don't really care about CI/CD (they just run), Git (better than project_name_final-03 on an unsecured ftp server), or TDD (just cheat and write post hoc tests). What I really hate is filling in form A, which directs you to form B, which you fill in to see whether form C is required. Form B was put in place by a legal team, who don't provide any point of contact, and who are not your friendly local legal team. Becau…

That kind of bureaucracy predates agile, but it may have increased in some places as people try to grapple with the chaos of endless sprint cycles and continuous change. i.e. trying to figure how to manage the madness. But, I don't see how your shop can be agile with that level of bureaucracy?

Anyway, I think my comments on CI/CD, Git, etc are being misconstrued. I'm not saying they don't have value. I'm saying they are frequently part of an ethos that leads to developer burnout.

For instance, your CI/CID process is one you must "appease", along with the rest of the bureaucracy. It may not feel as odious (and may even seem a relief, relatively speaking), but it contributes to your total load.

And, Git is fine. In fact, perhaps even perfect for the current culture (in philosophy, if not always in execution). Each developer has his/her own repo, you can work offline, you merge instead of locking check-outs, etc. But, that's the trick: it feels perfect because it allows you to work in the always-on philosophy of agile. Its popularity sprang up because this world of high burn-out, constant productivity demands it.

So, we can see the utility of these things and even appreciate them. But, the model they enable and expectations they create can still ultimately lead devs to burnout.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#714
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CI systems are awesome when they are working. > writing good tests is really helpful for me I'd wager it's partly generational. If you came up in the agile world, then you likely see the upside but not the down since there's no reference point for the latter. Because, of course it's cool that these CI build processes kick off at commit points (or whatever). And, of course, the near instantaneous feedback that somet…

I disagree pretty strongly with your analysis. I have experience winging it without tests and CI systems. Of course it's not impossible or all bad, I still did it at the time because it was fun and I didn't know better. Then I started working at a big company with a good engineering culture, I learned about writing tests and related tools, and had a much better experience. Now working without these things feels like…

I hear you. My point here is not that every non-agile company is better than every agile company.

Not sure I'm getting my actual point across though so, rather than repeat myself, I'll just say the "continuous" part of CI/CD has implications on us as humans that are difficult to fulfill over the long-term. So, maybe really consider that word continuous in this context. We're just not made to be cogs in an automation pipeline that never ends, which is essentially where the philosophy (and its enabling tools) places us.

So, it can feel fine and you can see the merits of the tools, etc. But, none of that precludes the burnout that so many devs ultimately face over time.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All accurate and objective and good for everyone to know early rather than late. Moving a bit further from the specifics, it's worth noting that this is not a natural state of affairs. Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives and thus making catastrophic deception nearly impossible. Likewise vast sums of wealth did not exist nor total social and fiscal isolation surrounded…

" Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives " When did this happen? A female chimpanzee will grow up in a tribe of 30 to 150 and then at adolescence move to another tribe of 30 to 150, and occasionally, after a tribal war, end up in another tribe of 30 to 150. Each tribe was typically surrounded by 1 to 5 other tribes of 30 to 150, and of course the chimpanzees had to keep…

You missed the "their whole lives" part and confuse "keep track of" to "know someone".

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point, laced with justified indignation. As a graybeard, I've seen multiple generations of "how to do software" and the most recent are the least fun. A lot of this is driven by the agile approach. It's tailor-made for dev burnout: from the endless tight cycles that force people into an infinite loop of productivity with scant satisfaction that comes with "completion", to all of the tools and philosop…

The commodification/fungibilty of programmers is the goal. See, also open office plans. I think the bad started for me (long ago) when the Microsoft style management and so-called MS best practices began to conquer the PNW. In the late 90's a company I was in started driving to an exit. First they hired an ex-MS Group Program Mgr, whatever that means. Next, came tons of PMs pulling one or two devs into their projects…

>The commodification/fungibilty of programmers is the goal

This rings true. It's probably why I have always had a tendency to look sideways at these efforts to turn everyone into a coder. I get it: there's demand, opportunity, etc. But, for me, there's always been a cynical element of devaluing actual coders to it.

The stuff you're talking about regarding your management approach almost seems like a relic from a bygone era at this point. So many companies now allow the process to manage devs. PMs back then frequently over-focused on the work vs. people, but even many of them have been replaced with some version of a scrum master with an even more relentless focus on the never-ending storyboard. They're driving the work over people approach without apology because it's what the process demands.

This is not to say it's 100% the case across all companies. But, there's very much an inhuman element to the process that has manifested to some degree in nearly every place that employs agile.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives " When did this happen? A female chimpanzee will grow up in a tribe of 30 to 150 and then at adolescence move to another tribe of 30 to 150, and occasionally, after a tribal war, end up in another tribe of 30 to 150. Each tribe was typically surrounded by 1 to 5 other tribes of 30 to 150, and of course the chimpanzees had to keep…

You missed the "their whole lives" part and confuse "keep track of" to "know someone".

You are right, I am confused. How would I keep track of someone if I don't know them? This includes not just people but all of the animals that I interact with. My mom used to have a bird feeder and I spent countless hours watching the birds. I got to know several dozen as individuals, I was aware of their injuries and their style of eating (timid, brave, quick, slow). How might I keep track of them without knowing them? Perhaps you might consider that your ideas on this subject are a bit muddy?

Also, you misread the original comment when they wrote "their whole lives" -- they are asserting people never know more than that 30 to 100 people, an assertion which is absurd.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#718
post #619
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's strange is I can also give you examples of how testing code bugs that had been there for more than 3 years (security related mind you) and a company whose release branch didn't compile on my day one because a guy who doesn't believe in any software development process and committed directly to the release branch. I don't mean, dogmatically follow unit tests (actually my statement wasn't predicated on unit test…

The thing that the parent poster is trying to point out is that our fancy programmer tools, processes, ceremonies and tests are worse than useless if they get in the way of actual work and make you miserable and unproductive. People leave jobs because of this. People burn out because of this. Companies lose money because of lack of productivity. This is what this whole thread is about. If tests are "taking the fun aw…

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Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#719
This isn't going to be a popular response, but I read your entire article and I have the following advice.

First, what toy wrote tells me you started your business because you consider yourself to be highly intelligent and capable and you believed that you should be in charge. What you've said about how your business failed and how few people still want anything to do with you afterwards tells me you were not prepared, you do not understand how to run a business and you lack even a minimal competency when it comes to leadership. I do not want you to think I am being harsh and unfeeling, I am being critical because it's what you need to know if you ever intended to work in the tech industry again.

Almost everyone wants to be in charge and believes they could succeed in such a role given the chance. Of those who attempt to start their own businesses only about 10% have what it takes to merely stay in business. Fewer than 3% of business leaders have sufficient ability in the field they already work in to create a genuinely profitable business, and less than 0.3% have what it takes to found an industry disrupting company.

Investors will always behave the way you described because they're basically playing roulette and they've bet on a bunch of things in the hope that 10% of their investments will pay off because they know the statistics I just told you. Your friends abandoned you however, because as a boss you make them promises and promising things to your friends which you probably cannot deliver always damages the relationship.

Finally, it's time for my advice. One, you need to remove your ego and emotions from your work as this will always eventually damage working relationships and burn you out. Two, work is always a marathon, never a sprint. A lot of startup guys will tell you that you have to work 70 hour weeks, but this is not maintainable and will just result in failure later on as opposed to delayed sustainable success. Third, if it wasn't clear from my initial statements, you are not well suited to being high level management and changing that about yourself would likely take so long as to waste the rest of your career in pursuit of a highly stressful goal that is unlikely ever to feel worth the effort. I suggest you take an engineering position or stick to no higher than mid-level project management at an established company. Finding somewhere relaxing where you can limit your work hours to 40 or less per week is the only real chance you have at reversing the burnout, but only if you can remove your ego and emotions from your past and future professional work. I strongly recommend mindfulness meditation to help with getting past your former business failings and MO e forward into a career that you can find fulfilling.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#720

I have also experience close to burnout and recovered multiple times, in the process I have lost very precious relationships, and entire years were spent in darkness. I also have friends who have been in tech for close to ten years, and are close to burning out though they would never admit to such. This is the nature of the beast, all things that appear glamorous on the outside ( Hollywood, Finance, Tech, many nonpr…

In those stern points, there is some farm good existential advice.
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