Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work • Hacker News Board

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#711

Post by Aeolun » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:20 AM UTC

akersten wrote: post #694

Gunax wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Refusing to serve a customer when you disagree with that customer's goal is pretty far from being a "moral arbiter for society." Keep in mind that anyone is free to use other services (or roll their own) and gitlab can't do anything about that. Neither would it be overreaching for the workers building that product to request a say in how it's used. I think this is the crux of the issue. Anyone is of course free to…

Or, just break up the alleged monopoly under existing anti-trust regulation, instead of welcoming a terrifying new power of the government mandating that private business serve customers they disagree with?

On the list of ‘terrifying new powers’ this one is waaay down. If the customer is not doing anything illegal you have no reason not to serve them.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#712

Post by shard972 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:24 AM UTC

sgustard wrote: post #169

core-questions wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where we seem to find ourselves today is in a position where if you have very progressive politics, you can say whatever you like - no matter how radical - whereas if you have conservative politics you can't even admit that without any specifics without being thought of as evil. This is how we can get away with saying it's "encouraged" while really making sure any meaningful counter-argument is "forbidden" at the sam…

I work at an oil company in Houston and if I expressed a shred of progressive thought I would be run out of town. Maybe this place is more your speed?

Oh yea the cultural influence of the oil companies, it's so annoying how BP culture just makes it's way to the rest of civil society /s

If you can't see how the tech/media industry have a larger influence over the general culture then I don't know what to say.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#713

Post by mayniac » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:24 AM UTC

ggreer wrote: post #495

earthscienceman wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which actually really boils down to what the word "white male privilege" really means. If you think politics is annoying, then it's because you're privileged enough for it to not matter. ^^^ privileged white male

I've worked at a company that heavily encouraged discussion of politics at work, and it was a nightmare. The things management sponsored (at the request of employees) included: - A women-only Slack channel. - Women-only events, such as a free screening of Wonder Woman. The men at the company were expected to work during that time. - An "ally skills workshop"[1], which attempted to indoctrinate us with an explicitly r…

>"I said that their goal should be to eliminate bias in the hiring process (such as by blinding resumes, replacing phone screens with text-only mediums, etc). I was taken aside and chastised for my statements."

While it does sound like a good idea to eliminate bias, appearance is a contributory factor in the hiring process. If someone turns up with matted hair, hasn't showered in months, and is wearing a pizza stained t-shirt then most companies won't want to hire them and most employees won't want to work near them. Good idea in theory, not really in practice. You're going to have to have a face-to-face interview at _some_ point and that's when (mostly subconscious) racism/sexism/\*ism will

Also, that first slide from the workshop presentation reminded me how much I hate the push for people to declare pronouns. Contrapoints tweeted about this from a trans perspective[1] and got labeled "problematic" by a lot of leftists.

[1] https://arcdigital.media/contrapoints-and-the-scandal-that-s... (referencing the first set of tweets)

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#714

Post by flippinburgers » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:25 AM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #545

legostormtroopr wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can’t improve without discussion, and it’s unfortunate that these type of issues are so divisive. Except Cancel Culture is making it that these can't be discussed without complete agreement. Take for example, "Women in Tech", personally I don't see underrepresentation of women in tech as a problem that can be or should be 'solved'. For the better part of 15 years, there has been a massive movement to encourage w…

When people go and talk to women who started out in the tech pipeline but left, many say that the reasons they left are that they felt unwelcome in some way: they were harassed, under-valued, talked over, stalked, underpaid, etc. Too many women choose to leave not because they didn't like the work, but because they didn't like all the bullshit they were implicitly asked to put up with, in order to do the work. If ver…

Aside from harassed or stalked, the others apply just as much to men. Hate to break it to you. We have been trained by society to put up with it.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#715

Post by mhermher » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:26 AM UTC

neonate wrote: post #280

anm89 wrote: post #129

I personally think this is awesome. I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product. If these users are breaking laws, then put them out of business via the courts and sieze the assets (the repos in this case) via legal mea…

Wow, that is such a clear analysis that someone should transcribe it. Here's the main part of what Naval says: "If Google, Facebook, and Twitter had been smart about this, they would not have picked sides. They would have said "We're publishers. Whatever goes through our pipes goes through our pipes. If it's illegal, we'll take it down. Give us a court order. Otherwise we don't touch it." It's like the phone company.…

They're more like broadcasters than carriers. The phone companies don't broadcast. If you broadcast, then you're going to run into this issue one way or another.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#716

Post by LegitShady » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:27 AM UTC

xenocyon wrote: post #400

anm89 wrote: post #129

I personally think this is awesome. I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product. If these users are breaking laws, then put them out of business via the courts and sieze the assets (the repos in this case) via legal mea…

Counterpoint: many tech workers want some agency over what they are building and don't want to be forced to work on nefarious applications. I don't seek an outsized claim on society but I do reserve the right to decide what my hands will - or won't - build.

nobody is forcing you to do anything - You're free to find a new job at any time, unless you're indentured and you didn't tell anyone.

If you want to decide what to build go into business for yourself. If you're working for someone else you have the choice to either work for them and do what they want or quit.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#717

Post by mayneack » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:27 AM UTC

anm89 wrote: post #129

I personally think this is awesome. I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product. If these users are breaking laws, then put them out of business via the courts and sieze the assets (the repos in this case) via legal mea…

> The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product.

The size of every group's voice in society isn't a magical balance. I don't want rich people or corporations to have an outsized voice either. It's a zero sum game, so the only way to reduce that is to give more voice to other groups. Employees should try to leverage their numbers more, not less, because that's the only tool they have. Gitlab is based in San Francisco, so their votes probably don't matter either.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#718

Post by tacocataco » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:33 AM UTC

madrox wrote: post #385

anarchodev wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product Refusing to serve a customer when you disagree with that customer's goal is pretty far from being a "moral arbiter for society." Keep in mind that anyone is free to use othe…

> Refusing to serve a customer when you disagree with that customer's goal is pretty far from being a "moral arbiter for society." This sounds really good until someone refuses to bake a wedding cake for a couple because they're gay. The supreme court ruled in favor of the baker. You're advocating for a world where that's ok. Is that the world you want to live in?

I never understood why a gay couple wouldn't want to support a gay wedding cake baker.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#719

Post by friedman23 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:34 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #606

friedman23 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me what you want is not to discuss politics at work but dictate politics are work. Unless you are perfectly okay with your co worker coming in with a MAGA hat every day and explaining to you why they think LGTB people don't deserve the right to marry.

I don't view this as a political issue at all. If I ran a company and had LGBTQ employees, I would not want what you just described because it would be creating a hostile environment for those employees. Coming into your workplace and telling your co-workers that they don't deserve equal rights under the law is just a shitty thing to do. It's an issue of basic respect and has nothing to do with politics.

You can attempt to frame it however you would like but what you want is an environment where people can only discuss political views that you agree with.

There is no harassment when someone simply states "I don't think same sex marriage should be legal.". And before I get downvoted into oblivion, I don't agree with that statement, I'm actually completely apathetic to it and think it's unimportant.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#720

Post by Aeolun » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:34 AM UTC

andreimuntean wrote: post #590

snowwrestler wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people go and talk to women who started out in the tech pipeline but left, many say that the reasons they left are that they felt unwelcome in some way: they were harassed, under-valued, talked over, stalked, underpaid, etc. Too many women choose to leave not because they didn't like the work, but because they didn't like all the bullshit they were implicitly asked to put up with, in order to do the work. If ver…

And what happens when people go and talk to men who started out in the tech pipeline but left? Don’t they say similarly negative things?

What? Why would we listen to the men? They have it easy!