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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#711

Post by chasing »

josteink wrote: post #336
raxxorrax wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your "inclusivity" stops at Stallman, it seriously lacks performance. You use the wrong word. What you desire is conformity. edit: Additionally, because I think this isn't obvious here, Stallman opened up the knowledge about software to the whole world and put energy in keeping it that way. Anyone was able to profit from this.

> You use the wrong word. What you desire is conformity. This seems to be a pretty common paradox. The people who promote "diversity" (and sometimes even diversity of thought!), never accept anyone who wants to debate the nuances of that concept, nor how that may best be implemented. Basically they demand conformity to the one "diverse" view and their definition of diversity. You're either with them or you're "part o…

Not true at all. People who want to increase diversity debate freedom of speech and what makes for “diversity” all the time. If you’re not hearing it, maybe you need to listen more carefully.

In my experience people who say what you’ve said above actually don’t want debate: They’re frustrated that other people have made their choices and wish to either belabor the topic endlessly or filibuster and waste everyone’s time. You may have freedom of speech, but you do not have an enshrined right to be debated against. There are only so many hours in the day and people must get on with their lives.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#712

Post by KirinDave »

marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

For what it's worth, lots of us have been trying to have him be removed for being a sexist dirtbag for a long time.

No one really needed media sensationalism to draw a pattern of behavior unbefitting the leadership of the FSF. That some random people overstated some aspects of his Epstein thoughts isn't really why this happened.

It's also a bit ironic you've decided to call it a witch hunt. Witch hunts happened when folks decided to start blaming women for everything without even a veneer of logic or civility. And here we are with a man, having possessed a long history of specific behaviors, being called to account for exactly those behaviors. It's ironic simply because the privileges RMS was exercising are so ingrained in your worldview that demanding he stop treating women like lesser beings is–to you, at least fundamentally irrational and unfair demand.

RMS had hundreds of other controversial opinions. Uttering them did not result in this. In fact, no single act of sexism got him here either. So suggesting that this is merely society punishing a misunderstood outsider on a whim is itself pretty uncalled for.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#713

Post by mikeash »

Tech bros: “I wonder why tech is so disproportionately male. Must be something biological.”

Also tech bros: “I can’t believe RMS got forced out just for going on a crazy rant about rape on a CS mailing list. Why, any one of us could be next!”

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#714

Post by arkh »

lame88 wrote: post #596
dexen wrote: post #447

Just as much as RMS was right[1], ESR was right[2]. The "cancel culture" is harming the free software movement by practicing human version of Microsoft's EEE[3]. The cancel culture enters the community, establishes interests groups, and starts knocking down prominent contributors. The demands are backed by angry crowds on social media rather than by contributions. It's time for us to defend each other, and to hold co…

Using the term SJW alone destroys the credibility of any substantial claim using it. If you really want to persuade people, find a term that isn’t mainly employed as incendiary jargon of far-right ideology to categorically dismiss anyone left of their viewpoint.

Then: North American Nouvelle-Bourgeoisie. Or Puritans 2.0.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#715

Post by roguecoder »

sgt wrote: post #647
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

It's disappointing to read many of the comments on HN today. As we know, rms is a very dear person to most of the Computer Science and programmer community. Through the years, he's said many shocking things. We've often disagreed with him. He's been extremely stubborn. At some points it's been comical. Yet we still see him as a technology treasure, and we should keep this in mind before judging him harshly based on a…

He is not acting logically, at all. Had he actually apologised he probably could have kept his job. Had he stopped being an asshole any of the times people tried to help him be less of an asshole he could have kept his job and maybe people would have defended him. Instead, he had been so awful for so long that when people came forward with his latest bullshit defending his friend over the child his friend committed statutory rape with, we all knew that it was in character for him.

Imagining his (incorrect, head canon-fueled) pedanticism is “logical” is an insult to logic.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#716

Post by giancarlostoro »

colechristensen wrote: post #652
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

There are a chain of media reports which inaccurately portray what Stallman was saying. But look past that into what was happening. Stallman was trying to defend Minsky who had sex with someone, a teenager, nearly 60 years younger than him on a billionaire's private island. There isn't an imaginable circumstance where what happened there was not, even in the best possible light, incredibly creepy. His intellectual ar…

> There are a chain of media reports which inaccurately portray what Stallman was saying.

Why the hell the Media never puts up links to direct sources is what frustrates me the most. There's been some bad cases of this lately.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#717

Post by ixtli »

colechristensen wrote: post #679

RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…

Let's be honest, the people who disagree with your comment are worried that eventually someone will out them for their terrible behavior as well! It's shocking to me how unaccustomed to being held accountable some people are.

Here's a radical supposition: it's actually good when speech has consequences in society.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#718

Post by ubermonkey »

kstenerud wrote: post #509

It's unfortunate that scarlet letter offences are still alive and well in today's culture. Normally, when someone engages in behavior seen as offensive, the procedure is to pressure the person to apologize and mend his ways, and only get rid of him if he refuses to do so. But when a "scarlet letter" offence is involved, we jump straight to the punishment phase, removing the person outright with no judicial process. T…

RMS is not encountering any judicial or criminal sanction.

He is merely encountering actual consequences for saying absurd, indefensible things -- and, likely, also finally encountering consequences for being a well-known source of creepy behavior towards women for a very long time. People lose jobs all the time for less.

Yeah, he's done some good things. And maybe (MAYBE) he's actually not neurotypical. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass on being a creep forever.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#719

Post by [deleted] »

KirinDave wrote: post #712
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

For what it's worth, lots of us have been trying to have him be removed for being a sexist dirtbag for a long time. No one really needed media sensationalism to draw a pattern of behavior unbefitting the leadership of the FSF. That some random people overstated some aspects of his Epstein thoughts isn't really why this happened. It's also a bit ironic you've decided to call it a witch hunt. Witch hunts happened when…

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