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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#711

Post by guyzero »

iNerdier wrote: post #465
lb1lf wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I purchased my appliances with much the same idea in mind; I wanted something that would last, period. Turns out around here (Scandinavia), the brand to beat is Miele, which also seems to enjoy a near monopoly in pro gear, from what I can tell (Just about every vessel I've ever sailed on carries Miele gear in their laundries. I cannot recall ever seeing anything else.) Also, after asking around at a place repairing a…

Two a day ? What on earth are they doing to require that much washing?

Miele machines are small compared to most washing machines for the US market. I had an imported AEG and when I replaced it with a LG frontloader it seemed impossible how big the drum was. I used to only be able to wash 3-4 pairs of jeans at a time and now it's like 8-10.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#712

Post by svachalek »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #683
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid your corollary won't apply; the lowest wages will just move elsewhere. There already was a company in China that moved production to the US because of wages there (plus transport costs, etc). I could see countries in Africa become the next manufacturing powerhouse(s), direct access to major seaways to both the US, Europe and Asia, etc. I don't know if they have the natural resources though, or the politica…

This exploitation of cheap foreign labor is a big reason why rural America is doing so poorly. Corporations used to go to rural America for cheap labor, but because of our environmental and labor laws as well as our higher standard of living, it's not viable. I honestly don't see how this trend can continue without destabilizing our country.

It already has; see the 2016 election. Factories will come back, but they won't require labor anymore, so in the long term something fundamental needs to change.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#713

Post by com2kid »

Spooky23 wrote: post #694
foobarian wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with the current market is that it's next to impossible to determine the quality of a machine. I would gladly pay $3000 for a washer if I could somehow tell that it will be better built, with higher quality metals, inner parts, and overall longer lasting. But it seems that the extra money these days just buys more flashy bells and whistles that just increase the chance of failure. Sadly my strategy has bee…

For washers/dryers, go to an independent appliance dealer and get a Speed Queen top loader. They have 3-5 year warranties and since switching to electronic controls are offering a longer warranty on the controls. The only downside is that they aren't "pretty", if you care about that and they run smaller than typical consumer washers. I've had mine since like 2000. Every single person I've referred there has been supe…

My university dorms had speed queens.

I was not delighted. Clothing was torn to shreds by the washer and then left still wet by the dryer. The machines were always getting called in for maintenance. I get that they were being ran 24/7, but the number of loads I had done correctly versus left wet and not so clean wasn't a very good ratio. :/

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#714

Post by dredmorbius »

WalterBright wrote: post #404
dredmorbius wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you prefer O2 to CO, you'll care about corrosion.

Are you sure about that? I did some research on this on the internet, and the house air in the exchanger is at a higher pressure than the exhaust gas, and so house air goes into the exhaust if there's a crack, not the other way around.

Possibly not the heat exchanger as a most likely cause, when all is functioning well (having just performed my own brief online research).

However, the original question concerned the longevity of gas furnaces, and possible limiting factors on their lifespan.

As such, you might care to contemplate:

* What are origins of CO?

* What are such possible origins within a house?

* What are the likely mechanisms for transit of CO from normal exhaust systems to interior space?

* What might be the long-term consequences of thermal stress, oxidation, cycling, etc., on manifolds of such spaces.

If you choose to focus myopically on heat exchangers and heat exchangers alone, that's your call. I'd suggest keeping the batteries up to date in your CO monitors, however.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#715

Post by mywittyname »

steven777400 wrote: post #674
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm rather afraid of Tesla and their batteries - you know batteries, whether intentional or not, only last for about 1000 charge cycles, or in the case of Tesla for about 7-10 years, before they have to be replaced - which won't be cheap. This will be an Issue that will be highlighted very soon. We'll see a huge devaluation in secondhand Tesla cars, since replacing the battery will be more expensive than…

I'd like to know more about this too, and how Tesla and other companies plan to address it. I'm particularly concerned about the potential environmental impact of dumping a bunch of batteries into landfills. Is there a battery reburishment/recycling program for these vehicles?

Yeah, they are high 90s% recyclable, depending on the technology.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#716

Post by dredmorbius »

ibgib wrote: post #648
dredmorbius wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is ibGib? What does the name represent?

> What is ibGib? This is a broad question, as ibGib is many things. To be precise, it is its own question and answer, so the answer to this would be "ibGib". This would encompass your definition of ibGib, Bob's definition, etc., but this would probably overly pedantic. Basically it's different things and has many use cases. As for ibGib WRT software, it's an engine/architecture that I'm implementing ( https://github.…

That tells me much of what I need to know, thank you.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#717

Post by Chaebixi »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #663
Keverw wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing on HN a year or two ago? About Samsung smart fridges calendar app not being updated when Google phased out the API it was using. Also Blu-ray players don't get updates after a long while too I've heard as YouTube and Netflix changes their APIs - the devs of these devices don't keep them up to date. I would prefer a dumb TV, and just buy a replaceable box with the computer part. The only way I could…

Why would your fridge need a calendar app?

Probably so that you can show off cool new tech as a trade show.

IIRC, people have been trying to stick computers in refrigerators since the first dot-com boom. It made little sense then (and even less sense now), but it has a superficial appeal if you don't think about it too much: everyone in the family interacts with the fridge on a regular daily basis and many people use it as the household noticeboard. However, when you think about ergonomics, efficiency, and maintenance; the whole idea falls apart quickly.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#718

Post by shuntress »

mark-r wrote: post #290
lordnacho wrote: post #45

He mentions it in the article: It's a failure of feedback that makes this happen. If people can't get reliable information about quality, quality will not determine what they buy. Price will, and price is readily available. To get price down, you need costs down. To do that, you replace the parts with crappy parts. If feedback worked, people would know they were paying less for a less good appliance that will have mo…

Part of it is brand reputation stripping. If a brand gets a good reputation, some big conglomerate buys it and starts using it to make trash, and it takes time for consumers to learn it through the grapevine. This happens far too often to be mere coincidence.

It's not a coincidence. But that doesn't mean it's a global conspiracy.

You stated the entire cause->effect very succinctly yourself: "If a brand gets a good reputation, some big conglomerate buys it and starts using it to make trash, and it takes time for consumers to learn it through the grapevine"

It is an extremely straightforward way for a company to make quick money.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#719

Post by drzaiusapelord »

nneonneo wrote: post #710
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except its rare to see actual documented proof that this is a real practice in reputable industry. Sure it must happen (or seem to happen as a unintended effect), but from a rational perspective if Samsung does this then I'll switch to LG, thus costing Samsung business and reputation. I have no brand loyalty so it doesn't make sense to make unreliable products. I, like any consumer, get pissed off and I switch to oth…

> I just bought all new appliances for my house a few years back. If anything, I was bowled over by all the players in this space and had to do a lot of legwork in regards to reviews. I really don't think lack of competition is an issue. The post specifically addresses this: most of the brands you see have actually been consolidated into a small number of manufacturers. Brands under the same parent corporation may on…

It still doesn't matter. GE is run by its own management and engineers. It doesn't matter that its all owned by one Chinese conglomerate or NBC or whoever. They're not re-badging Shenzhen #1 Super Fast Machine with the GE tag. Corporate ownership is, generally, an abstract that shouldn't matter in most cases. Unless they're purposely cutting lines or just rebadging stuff, then reading reviews is still the solution here.

I also noticed he didn't mention any giant German brands like Bosch or Miele. Nor any Japanese brands. Or less popular brands like Amana or Admiral or Hotpoint. Again, this space is full of competition. Compare that to tech where we have natural monopolies all the time or a duopoly, at best, with lots of little third-level competitors that barely get sales.

Car guys fall for this fallacy too. Latte-sipping Fiat engineers with only small car diesel experience who are appalled by off-roading aren't designing the new Wrangler. The Wrangler is its own design and designed by the same engineering team that worked on it before the buyout. The 2018 Wrangler won't be a Fiat mini with slightly larger wheels. It'll still be Wrangler and reading reviews on it will be all that matters. Of course, this can change, but the idea that a single large owner depresses the market and hurts quality is questionable. They do, of course, have a big advantage with pricing and other market advantages.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#720

Post by soundwave106 »

sundvor wrote: post #176
prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

Someone forgot to tell Rotel this (the Hi Fi company). My amplifier and pre-amp from 1997 are still going strong this day today, 20 years later. My Infinity Kappa 6.1 speakers are the same age; just had to refurbish/replace the cone surrounds a few years ago. If anything they sound better than when I bought them. :-) So considering this: You're right, there's probably more money in the strategy of planned obsolescenc…

Personally, I think there is a market for quality in appliances as well (certainly I'd look for quality over wiz bang Internet of Things crap); the appliance market just has a quasi-monopoly dominating sales, and they are currently over-focused on a race to the bottom.

In audio, it's possible to find products designed to last. My current amplifier is from Bryston, bought about 16 years ago. Their warranty for their analog products is 20 years. (http://bryston.com/pages/faq.html)

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