Amazon Go • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Go

#711

Post by dkarapetyan » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:12 PM UTC

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

I don't think your view is unpopular. Plenty of people here would agree with you but it's an overly romantic view of the world.

The problem isn't that Amazon is doing this and that this will drive out those mom&pop shops. The problem is that people will choose to go to Amazon and willingly destroy the mom&pop shops. The consumers are more culpable for the destruction of those mom&pop shops than Amazon. By placing the blame entirely on Amazon you are taking agency away from people which in my opinion sounds more wrong than a nice neighborhood losing its charm because of Amazon Go.

What people don't realize is that economic forces are completely within their control and it's their daily choices that add up to neighborhoods maintaining their charm or turning into Starbucks and Amazon Go automation factories. There is a sustainable way to drive innovation and it requires people to be cognizant of those daily choices. I don't think you can make people come to that realization by stopping or delaying progress.

Re: Amazon Go

#712

Post by csomar » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

DanPitrowiski wrote: post #501

csomar wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can see lots of issues here. Maybe you are being isolated from what is going on here. These guys might have been ordered by management to smile for customers. That doesn't make them happy. Just a bit more miserable, but you don't see any of it. I can't see why anybody will like to finish their life counting stuff and money for other people. I can hardly see them happy even if they smile to me. And here is ano…

As a man I'd be happier raising kids than processing mail for the post office. Or scanning groceries all day.

I put women because they seem to care more about kids. But men are fine too. That's not my point. My point is some very successful people have trouble creating families which is not sustainable for the human race as it is.

Re: Amazon Go

#713

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

tekklloneer wrote: post #529

subdane wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes sense from a suburban, car-based perspective. From a walking, city-based lens, neighborhoods and social interactions make a lot of sense. It's why coffee shops haven't been made obsolete by vending machines - at least here in New York. Point is, it depends on your perspective.

> It's why coffee shops haven't been made obsolete by vending machines I really don't think that's why. Vending machines can't compete with humans still for freshly produced goods. There have been a few shots across the bow, but producing food that requires adjustment is still beyond the range of our sensors. I can't imagine a robot "dialing in" an espresso machine based on taste like a barista would, at least for an…

I think if someone made a vending machine that actually makes coffee the way a barista would, instead of pouring hot water into dried powder of random chemicals, I'd never ever visit a coffee shop again. But as it is now, vending machine coffee tastes so bad it's almost a separate category of awfulness (and don't get me started on vending machine tea...).

Re: Amazon Go

#714

Post by Barrin92 » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

gerardnll wrote: post #196

Merad wrote: post #86

I hate it when companies offer a "how this works" section that doesn't actually tell you a damned thing about how it works. * How does my Amazon account get associated with the items I take? * How are items detected when leaving the store? If my friend and I walk out side by side, how does it know (if it does) which items are mine and which are hers? * What happens when someone picks up an item and leaves without fir…

* What happens when someone throws a product in my bag. Who pays it?

if you don't notice it and don't put it bag you pay for it, just like in a normal store. That's what I'd assume at least.

Re: Amazon Go

#715

Post by jaypaulynice » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:14 PM UTC

I'm guessing it's not as simple as they make it look in the video...unless the food tags have some kind of RFID/Bluetooth to communicate with the phone in your pocket...maybe the grocery bags? Even with cashiers sometimes they don't know what the price is...also some things are sold by the pounds...where is the scale? What if you pay then walk back in again? You get double charged?

Re: Amazon Go

#716

Post by Consultant32452 » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:15 PM UTC

microDude wrote: post #682

Ok Amazon, why not do this? Skip the whole stocked shelf thing entirely. Have a website setup that customers can build a shopping cart, then just show up and pickup their "pre-bagged" groceries. The benefits to this are obvious. 1) No shop lifting. 2) Car friendly (you could have multiple drive-thru pickup lines) 3) Convenience for the shopper (saved lists, common items, don't have to walk around the store) 4) The st…

They're 90% of the way there with primenow. You can order frozen chicken, deli meats, etc. No fresh fruits and veggies yet, but you can order eggs. There's no drive-thru though, they just deliver it to your house within 2 hours of ordering, 1 hour if you pay a premium.

Re: Amazon Go

#717

Post by pavanred » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:15 PM UTC

crazypyro wrote: post #429

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

Trying to save jobs that are no longer the most efficient way of solving a problem is not the way to promote the value of humanity, in my opinion. People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy. If humanity were to take your…

Does automation really remove jobs or just displace them? Honest question. I mean, in this instance, I see perhaps jobs of 10 cashiers in a store replaced with 1-2 monitoring the store and rest done by automation. But, then this gives rise to a whole set of new jobs and industries too, the engineers that design these systems, the ones that build these machines, industries supplying manufacturing of hardware for these system, software developers, maintaining hardware, maintaining software, customer support, servicing. So, if this is deployed in all stores in a city then will employment numbers add up to become a zero sum? Is it just displacing employment from one category(or location) of manual tasks to different tasks?

Besides, if most people lose their jobs to automation in the near future, there won't be enough people who can afford to buy stuff at these stores anyway, so won't it become uneconomical to run these stores?

Re: Amazon Go

#718

Post by wiredone » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:15 PM UTC

antoinevg wrote: post #365

TulliusCicero wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1800's - "If you are a farm equipment manufacturer, you have to acknowledge that you are slowly corroding the farming sector, which employs most people in the country." Even if they "acknowledge" it, so what? It's not their job to create extra jobs to replace the ones that they've automated out of existence. It's never been the jobs of the companies creating disruptive technology, like farm equipment or cars or co…

Oookaaayyy… but then you don't get to complain when those people vote Trump into office.

And this is the definition of a Straw Man argument to the implication "we need to care about the people affected by innovation".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Re: Amazon Go

#719

Post by theon144 » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:16 PM UTC

biztos wrote: post #709

crazypyro wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to save jobs that are no longer the most efficient way of solving a problem is not the way to promote the value of humanity, in my opinion. People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy. If humanity were to take your…

This comment makes me suspect you may have never been to a farmer's market, or a market hall (of which Barcelona has some of the world's most glorious examples). While it's possible that some people "want groceries as cheap and fast as possible," I don't think either of those is true of the hundreds of people I join at my local market every week. I go there mainly because I like buying directly from the producers. I…

Farmer's markets will be unaffected by this, obviously. The possibility to buy your groceries in this manner would still exist, as that's a different "use case", and I absolutely support and enjoy it. In contrast, I don't believe there is anything worth saving regarding the human interaction in supermarkets - in fact, I think that working an 8 hour shift which consists solely of scanning items and saying a couple pre-defined sentences is a very dismal, and in fact much more inhuman experience than what Amazon is proposing.

Re: Amazon Go

#720

Post by rtkwe » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 7:16 PM UTC

bennettfeely wrote: post #436

What happens when my phone battery runs out while shopping in the store? What happens if I don't replace an item in the exact same place I picked it up? I'm charged for it I assume. How do you purchase produce or vegetables, all these thing need to be packaged individually I assume. So much for concern for the environment... Is the occasional line in a store really worth having your every movement tracked by Amazon a…

> What happens when my phone battery runs out while shopping in the store?

From the look of the video the phone isn't required for checkout. The flow looks like you scan in then camera's and other sensors track you through the store then you just walk out and the items are scanned and totaled.

> What happens if I don't replace an item in the exact same place I picked it up? I'm charged for it I assume.

Then just put stuff back where you got it. You shouldn't just leave items randomly strewn throughout the store already.

> How do you purchase produce or vegetables, all these thing need to be packaged individually I assume. So much for concern for the environment...

It's not a full grocery store, it looks like it's all packaged foods and fresh daily kind of prepared foods.

> Are your poor or without "a supported smartphone"? Forget about it.

Judging from the video, any Android or iOS device should be able to function, all it needs to do is display a QR code and a receipt no RFID or even a decent camera.

> Amazon is a company that tries new things and that's good, but here we have yet another example of tech nerds "solving" a problem that doesn't exist.

Why does everything have the address some deep underlying problem. Some things just make life a little easier or more convenient and that's ok.