Peter Thiel is a neocon nightmare who thinks the 19th Amendment was a mistake.
Can we have a black bar for America, please?
Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
711–720 of 1001 posts
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#712Earlier quoted context omitted.
Corrected now, unless I didn't hear right when he refers to Mexico sending people over and then "they are rapists" perhaps his subject changed and he was referring to Aliens?
He is, at least technically, making a more sophisticated argument. I'll rephrase it to make that reading clear: "Like all countries, Mexico has both great people and rapists/murderers. Unfortunately, the latter group is overrepresented among those illegally in this country." That's (technically) the point he's making, and it's (technically) not racist.
Can you refute the statistical assertion Trump is making in that statement?
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#713Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There was just one candidate in this election that wants to control what you can say. And it wasn't Hillary. I don't agree Trump here. But I am not talking about the candidates. I am talking about BLM, SJWs, and Feminists vs. everyone else. With a racist, sexist, misogynist, xenophobe in the White House now, they must now show prove that his actions reflect their fears...or realise that they were misguided and tone…
I recognise that you are trying to engage and explain your point of view. I respect that, even though I disagree with you. You may have grievances (legitimate or otherwise) but you have to weigh up the pros and cons. In 1920s Italy you might have been daily frustrated by the poor reliability of the railways but that didn't mean that voting for Mussolini would have been a good idea overall. Also, not that I ascribe th…
> Italy you might have been daily frustrated by the poor reliability of the railways but that didn't mean that voting for Mussolini would have been a good idea overall.
Except you would know Mussolini had clear fascist positions. Trump was a ex-democrat and never far from the spotlight. He does not talk much about gay marriage and abortions. He doesnt have clear positions, although he does have directions like reversing illegal immigration, less interventionism. It seems none of them were judged bad enough to make trump supporters reverse their decision.
That's where the diagnosis of the democrats has gone wrong: they think it's possible that half the US is legally stupid, unable to think. They would have to back that up with statistics, iq tests etc.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#714Earlier quoted context omitted.
Prove it. Let's see some tax returns. In the absence of evidence, it is reasonable to assume that he is heavily in debt with no liquid assets and effectively poor. He paid a 7 dollar boy scout fee for his son from his "charity."
You think someone in debt would be smart enough to prod half the country as sheep into voting for him? Ha. America got trolled and was given the middle finger. We get it, you're upset. But listen to what the Democrat thought leaders are saying: stop dividing the country with your continued rhetoric in your comment. - Software engineer at Google in Mountain View, California
I think if you give an unconscionable liar a megaphone and don't challenge him on his lies, he can get the poorly educated to buy into those lies. I also think that if you get told repeatedly that there's a terrorist threat just waiting to kill you and there are poor migrants waiting to take your money and your culture, that you might be inclined to just take that at face value after a while.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#715Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Its worth trying out. I think this sums most of it up. People think things are getting worse and their lives very likely are, so why not try something different? It's the reason for most "unforeseen" results for ultrarightwing parties in Europe, I imagine. People want "someone who'll stir the pot". I've never felt like that, but I can understand the sentiment, after hearing it so many times.
How willing you are to take a chance depends on how desperate you are.
Here's an alternative way to think about "desperation" (not saying this is necessarily the right way).
We have a lot of people in this country who are struggling financially. Their choice of geographic location, education, and skills (things they choose) aren't lining up with the 2016 economy (which they didn't choose). They voted Republican.
We also have a lot of people who are struggling socially and financially. They were born Mexican, Muslim, or homosexual (things they are) and are scared because other people want to deport them, jail them, or kick them out of the military. They voted Democrat.
Now, the Democrats offered to work with the Republicans to give them more choices and options. The Republicans said, "No way. We're staying put and rolling the dice with your civil rights."
Is it fair that a lot of people might feel like their freedom got sold out this week?
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#716Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I promise not to argue against you, and certainly not to slur you. Please argue! And thank you for not slurring :) > Would you be willing to articulate your argument for Trump here? I supported Obama. I always considered myself a liberal. I support gay marriage, I support gun control. I support universal health care. I support decent welfare and a safety net. As a programmer, the formative moment for my Trump suppo…
Keep in mind that Thiel sued Gawker to stop freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Trump doesn't care and will appoint Thiel to a major position in his administration anyway. Trump also repeatedly sued (or threatened to sue) newspapers who published factual stories about him as well as women who he sexually abused. This is a chilling precedent for free speech: if you are rich enough, then you can just sue to sil…
And the US intervened to cut off julian assange's internet access. They gave hillary debate questions . It's a veritable jungle between media and politics over there.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#717Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So is your argument that "statesmen" have failed to avoid crisis, therefore someone who is not a "statesman" will be able to better avoid crisis? Nope. Only the fact that a "statesman" doesn't imply good foreign policy. Trump does imply more uncertainty though I would say. We will see. Its worth trying out. Unless you think he will launch the nukes. Which is a big part of the liberal narrative.
Ok - thanks for clarifying. I don't think that this assertion strengthens an argument that voting for Trump is better than voting for any other candidate. I would argue that someone who does not have experience in public office should not be considered a viable candidate for president of the United States, much as I believe that someone who has not driven a car before should not be considered to be a driver in the In…
> does not have experience in public office
Reagan didn't.
They can just surround themselves with people who know.
I think its good though. The longer you spend in politics, the more favours you owe people. Political capital. Don't you get excited at the prospect of a leader not beholden to any special interests at all?
> Is that a fair characterization of our positions based on this limited conversation?
In terms of risk/reward, I see higher risk and higher reward. You see higher risk and no change in reward.
I think it is a once in a lifetime opporuntity to have someone not beholden to special interests, and doesn't owe any favours.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#718This was obvious from the RNC speech and further reinforced when Thiel donated $1M to Trump. A contrarian bet, sure, but $1M is a pretty small price to pay to have a 50/50 shot at CTO of the USA. I'm sure he'll see a very significant ROI on his $1M once the government starts awarding contracts very conveniently to companies of which he owns a portion. I had very negative feelings about Thiel, and those were magnified…
Here is what I said 25 days ago: > I think Thiel is hedging for both himself and as a proxy for Facebook. If Trump wins, Facebook gets the most favored corporation status currently awarded to Google. If Trump loses, Thiel perhaps assumes everyone will forget soon enough and Zuckerberg can diss-avow any Facebook connection. In retrospect, the one thing I think I was wrong about were the odds. I thought it was a long s…
> Not only can Facebook say you are a Trump supporter, but they can know by how much and as time series!
That's a fascinating insight. They also have the geographic data and could slice/dice to get a sense of electoral college. After the systematic polling error that caught everyone off-guard, we will probably see some innovations in the next 4 years that will get incorporated into the ensemble models (e.g. 538). Perhaps Facebook will release some sort of sentiment data. Although that may get a little creepy.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#719Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So is your argument that "statesmen" have failed to avoid crisis, therefore someone who is not a "statesman" will be able to better avoid crisis? Nope. Only the fact that a "statesman" doesn't imply good foreign policy. Trump does imply more uncertainty though I would say. We will see. Its worth trying out. Unless you think he will launch the nukes. Which is a big part of the liberal narrative.
Ok - thanks for clarifying. I don't think that this assertion strengthens an argument that voting for Trump is better than voting for any other candidate. I would argue that someone who does not have experience in public office should not be considered a viable candidate for president of the United States, much as I believe that someone who has not driven a car before should not be considered to be a driver in the In…
The analogy you present, Public office : no experience as a public official :: doctor :: no experience as a doctor
I don't find it very accurate.
It might be more accurate to say public executive : corporate executive :: public doctor : doctor with a private practice
There are plenty of real concerns that arise from the accurate version, enough that here is no need to impose an inaccurate analogy to spawn more concern than is already warranted. But the one you proposed conveniently overlooks the executive nature that is in common between Trump's previous roles and the role of a president. Much of the support for Trump has come from this notion that the polite "statesmen" of recent administrations have succeeded with manners and managing their public personas, but have failed as executives, and that the populace has suffered as a result of their executive failures. This was the driving rhetoric behind the Trump campaign. It was hatred, sure, but hatred for incompetence. And this is the criticism that the left failed to effectively address. It is the reason why they lost.
You can mask over mistakes by applying inaccurate analogies, but you won't win over your critics in doing so. In politics, that's what matters. This election cycle we found out just how much.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#720Earlier quoted context omitted.
>He has built no ideological framework for future policies Sounds like a positive thing
Choosing not to build an ideological framework because you want to sort of wait and see what happens is different from not building one because you are too ignorant to do so. I'd agree with you that this is a positive thing if it was the former but I think it's pretty clear that it is in fact the latter.
I'd probably add "duplicitous" to "ignorant". Of course, there's also a tenable argument that absence of an ideological framework is an improvement on the ideological framework of some of the alternative candidates that could plausibly have won the election if he hadn't announced his candidacy.
But it says something about a president when the nicest thing you can say about most of their stated intentions is that they're a mountebank without the integrity or ability to actually follow through.