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Donald Trump Is Elected President

nytimes.com

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Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#711

Post by advantark2 »

SPBesui wrote: post #697
advantark2 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they were racist, sexist, or Islamophobic This is a big issue here, and something that I don't feel that many democrats seem to understand. It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs. It isn't sexist to acknowledge differences in the genders. It isn't islamophobic to see cultural issues with Islam that would cause integration issues, especially with a l…

> Much of the issue here is because of lack of understanding of the perspective of the other side. This sums up pretty much every political debate ever.

Absolutely true. And the first-past-the-post voting system in America amplifies the us-vs-them mentality that has created political gridlock for nearly a decade now.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#712

Post by dragonwriter »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #418
criddell wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. I couldn't disagree more. This campaign was all about emotion, not rationality. Apparently facts don't matter and that's very hard to deal with.

What I find truly amazing is how people say "RIP Democracy" (not all of them), when it were the people of the US who elected Trump, didn't they? Also that the media is totally disconnected with the ground reality, I know it is in my country, it is more in the US apparently.

> What I find truly amazing is how people say "RIP Democracy" (not all of them), when it were the people of the US who elected Trump, didn't they?

The plurality winner of the popular vote was Hillary Clinton; Trump's victory is directly dependent on the ways America's Presidential election system defies democracy.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#713

Post by zanethomas »

rconti wrote: post #484
zanethomas wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're incorrect in asserting that the election was about "disenfranchised blue collar workers". My daughter and her husband make about $200k per year and they voted for Trump. She's describes Trumps win as a great big middle finger to career politicians.

There are people who spraypaint unintelligible garbage on highway overpasses and key peoples' cars as a big middle finger to society, too. It's all just trolling. It's not to gain anything. It's to make things worse for everyone else.

It's that kind of disrespect for the opinions of others which had so many believing that Trump could not win.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#714

Post by brightball »

jernfrost wrote: post #215
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

I honestly have always been a pro "total free trade" with even the notion of protective tariffs being totally dismiss-able...but I think it's time to look at things with more of a nuanced approach.

When it comes to jobs, there is significant value provided to society as a whole from jobs that do not require a high degree of workforce re-education. Sometimes, people need a job that they can comfortably walk into and walk out of while they are between jobs. Walmart and McDonald's are the places providing that type of think because jobs that could be done cheaper elsewhere while importing the product were shipped off.

What we are seeing is that by offloading "no training" jobs to other cheaper countries and retaining "heavy education" jobs here in the US we're creating an additional cost to work that now REQUIRES paying for school, investing time in learning a skill and then hoping the market for that skill remains viable so you don't have to then re-invest in a new skill later on in life.

It makes me sincerely wonder if certain tariffs are more justified just to protect that type of work because it seems that the cost of not having it available is far higher than most people have accounted for. I live in the south east, an area that was highly dependent on the textile economy before it went belly up with the removal of protective tariffs. The effect was fairly devastating and it took many years to recover. Some areas never did while others flourished.

Just makes me want to understand all the factors more.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#715

Post by chillacy »

elcct wrote: post #329

I think people are tired of political correctness and left wing (or so called liberals if you will) stealing the fruits of hard work of the people in form of taxes and regulations and pushing "equality" agenda at all cost. People are not equal.

That's funny, because you could also see this as the result of working class citizens without skills which would have made them valuable in the new global economy, vote for trade protections which would allow them to keep their manufacturing jobs.

Also:

> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#716

Post by nthcolumn »

nthcolumn wrote: post #243
nohate wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile your desire to leave behind hate when you cast a vote for a candidate who's core positions were one of hate? If Trump does not continue a platform of hate, how would you not view that as a slap in the face as a supporter? He promised you hate, you said "Yes, I'll take one of those", and now say don't do that? You can not have it both ways, your vote is one for hate whether you bury your head in t…

After his BS speech did you see him going down the line of people, kissing each woman on the left cheek, every one except the last one that is. She was about to pucker up and had to awkward kiss the guy next to her instead. Not racist? Yeah right. C'mon man she was at least a 7!

Downmod all you want - did you see it or not? What's your explanation?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#717

Post by jrnichols »

blakeyrat wrote: post #294
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I live in a relatively small suburb of Seattle. I'm a software developer. There are no jobs for me where I live. None. None within 20 miles. The only job for me is in Seattle or Bellevue or Redmond, an hour-long commute. I love where I live, and I don't want to live in Seattle (which I could barely afford anyway-- I like owning a house). I also don't want to exclusively work-from-home and be cut-off socially from my…

> Maybe a tax benefit for opening office space...

i was just reading an article about a company with offices near St Louis. They took the tax incentives to open an office, promised like 150 jobs, and now they're all but shuttering it and laying off the 77 IT workers they had. And contracting their jobs to a company in India.

The tax incentives are definitely there. But the incentive to keep the jobs there isn't, when offshoring is so in vogue still.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#718

Post by TheGirondin »

knz wrote: post #635
advantark2 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they were racist, sexist, or Islamophobic This is a big issue here, and something that I don't feel that many democrats seem to understand. It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs. It isn't sexist to acknowledge differences in the genders. It isn't islamophobic to see cultural issues with Islam that would cause integration issues, especially with a l…

> It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs. I don't disagree with your point but how many "hard working" Americans want to work the fields and kitchens of the country for low wages? What impact is the removal of cheap labour going to have on the cost of food?

The country is filled with them once you leave the city - and they all turned out to vote last night.

My first two jobs were seasonal work on a potato farm and then working on the line in a packing plant. Neither of them would be available to me, and certainly not at a living wage, with a continuation of open borders.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#719

Post by prodmerc »

phkahler wrote: post #695
jernfrost wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

>> spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. It is the height of snobbery to move the lesser skilled jobs out of the country and tell everyone they need to be smarter. There will always be a distribution of skills and it is not for the well educated to say "you just need to be like us". All the US needs to do is stop signing 900 page "free trade" agreeme…

They are taking care of their own first - cheapest labor and lowest taxes make the shareholders extremely happy.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#720

Post by thomyorkie »

gwbas1c wrote: post #706
thomyorkie wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Terrorism: more toddlers killed Americans than terrorists in 2015. For every terrorist killing someone on US soil, more than 4000 Americans killed each other. Terrorism isn't a fake issue. You're ignoring the potential devastating effects that a successful terrorist attack on U.S. soil could have. Terrorists are always trying to up their game and its because of this that they represent a significant threat. Toddler…

Terrorism isn't about an attack, it's about fear. When we sacrifice our freedoms to live in fear of terrorists, they win.

Freedoms and proactive steps to mitigate an attack are not mutually exclusive.
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