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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#701
post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's good, sorry for asking. I've had a lot of people point at the big-0 notation of that linked-list append and tell me that it's faster than an ArrayList append on average. Usually this is right after telling me that "I just don't get it" with immutable collections. So I hope you can see why I'd react that way. As I'm sure you know, when it comes to real-world situations, reducing inter-thread communication…

> You shouldn't have read contention with locking in the first place unless it's for a very good reason. True, but you know how it is in practice :-) For example I found that using persistent data-structures work best when you've got single producer, multiple consumers scenarios - so you mutate some state and you want to signal it over asynchronous boundaries to multiple consumers. With an immutable data-structure yo…

Hey, so I agree with your analysis in general, and sorry for being opaque earlier (was at work), but you totally got what I was driving at and explained it probably better than I could have.

The one thing I disagree with, in many server applications, is using the available CPUs is pretty easy. You've got thread pools handling various tasks, just crank them up. In JVM-land, a very heavy 512kb stack per thread is still not really much penalty to pay as long as you re-use them. Aggregate application performance then becomes a matter of completing tasks faster while creating less garbage.

So it all comes down to what you consider a 'task' and how you handle the handoffs between them. The architecture decisions at this level dwarf the improvements from using an array vs list, as you implied, but they also make the usage of immutable types somewhat irrelevant IMO. Seal off mutable code within single-task boundaries and it doesn't matter how ugly it is, as long as you're passing immutable types (just plain javabeans with final members are fine) between boundaries.

Anyways, just my opinion. Great comment.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#702
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/AnnouncingNET2015NETAsOpenSour... "There is a new FREE SKU for Visual Studio for open source developers and students called Visual Studio Community. It supports extensions and lots more all in one download. This is not Express. This is basically Pro."

See... I'm neither. I'm a single developer working on mostly closed source projects. As a result, I don't benefit too much from that. Also, I have a Mac and an Ubuntu laptop. So again, not much love from MS. Now I admit this is the early days of their open source push. That's fine. But until they make VS Pro free, across the board, I doubt non-MS shops will really pickup the platform. There isn't much of a win withou…

It depends on what you're using it for.. I use Xamarin Studio(monodevelop) to work on a bunch of stuff. It works great. It falls down a bit trying to do ASP.NET stuff, but with the new open source push, ASP.NET vNext etc, this should get much better.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#705
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developers need to start looking more seriously at C#/.Net. I don't think they need to. They might if they have some particular need in it, but there are way more interesting things to learn if you are interested in something new, like Rust of example.

Rust is neat. Great for hobby stuff. But it hasn't even reached 1.0, and I highly doubt you're going to get enterprises to bet their infrastructure on it.

Yes, but Rust is on the final stretch to 1.0 with a finite set of features to be implemented before release. So soon we can get enterprise to look at it.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#706
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but Xamarin's independent existence is like free insurance for companies choosing .NET - even if Microsoft were to drop support (unlikely, but look at Silverlight), Xamarin would continue providing a viable way forward for the language and runtime. Now that MS's .NET is open source, Xamarin's .NET is like OpenJDK - Xamarin is a governing body and authority for the language/API if Microsoft were to drop…

Xamarin is IntelliJ, and Mono is OpenJDK

More like Xamarin is IBM. From http://openjdk.java.net/faq/ ... if you replace these words from that FAQ, it's remarkably similar to the current .NET situation (even though Xamarin is much smaller than IBM, the amount of attention each company gives to language & core framework development is probably on a similar scale).

> Oracle and IBM announced in October 2010 that we will collaborate in the OpenJDK Community to develop the leading open-source Java SE implementation, and make the OpenJDK Community the primary location for open-source Java SE development. Oracle and IBM will support the OpenJDK development roadmap that was proposed before JavaOne 2010, which accelerates the availability of Java SE across the open-source community.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#707
post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Node's like, one of the worst choices, due to the idiotic package manager. They ship essentially every function call as a separate package. It's actually a thing to take a dependency on "sha1" and literally pull in a package just for that one bit. Using Node/Grunt/Bower to build a straightforward run end site (just to compile static outputs) required npm installing over 13 thousand files. Now imagine on a build serve…

And then add sometimes not properly defined version dependencies (or developers abusing version numbers a bit) and you have a dependency hell when running npm update -g will almost definitely break something. I love yeoman, great scaffolding tool, but it depends on so many packages that sometimes it simply doesn't work because some package it depends on did something silly. So once you have a working set up, don't up…

You really should not be installing dependencies for anything globally. Instead, add them as dev-dependencies and call them in the package.json `scripts` property. The only npm package you really need installed globally is npm itself, and you can almost always let the package manager handle that for you.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#708
post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but as my post indicates, they've done a lot of good stuff since the bad stuff they did 20 years ago. They've had exceptional evidence and time, but hating Microsoft is just the thing to do in some IT circles. It doesn't matter what MS does, the cool kids will still hate them. And that's fine. I just don't want to hear about it. You're mad. We get it. You don't have to like them, all we ask is that you stop brin…

> I just don't want to hear about it. ... and therefore people should curtail their speech ? stop talking about relevant things that transpired ? May be you are a tad shaky on the concept, lets burn all the existing history books and those about to be written. > They've had exceptional evidence and time That is your opinion. The way it works is that you dont get to decide for someone else who has lost the trust wheth…

> The waiter at a restaurant chews on the serving and says this food is perfectly fine and you must push it down your throat isnt a very solid defense of the food. The buck stops at the desk of the restaurant patron.

If I order steak at a restaurant and they bring me fish, I'm within my rights to complain. If they bring me out the fish and give my meal to me for free, that's great. But if I'm still complaining about the steak even after getting a free meal, then after getting a coupon for future meals for free, and getting a manager apology, and getting discounts on meals, and then they pay me to stop complaining, if I'm still complaining, don't you think that's going too far? You can be unhappy all you want, that's your right. But how long can you go to that restaurant and complain about them mixing up steak and fish before the other patrons tell you you're being rude? Of course then you turn to that patron and say they're a shill for the restaurant.

What you say has been "amply demonstrated" has been completely refuted not just by myself. Please. I beg of you. Some of us just want to discuss the news, the actual relevant news that is happening right now with other like-minded people. If you come into a thread solely to hate and troll... please. Just turn around and walk out. If you like Red Hat, if you like Arch, if you like Mac, if you like Android, please just go there and talk about the things you like. You don't have to come here and shit on everything. That's called being a troll. It happens in almost every thread, but the difference is trolling other companies gets you downvoted. Trolling Microsoft gets the discussion flagged off the front page.

So please just go away.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#709

It will be interesting to see how this will work in practice. C# will port over just fine. But the .Net libraries? System.Windows has little to nothing in it, and right now using things like System.IO.* on Linux and Mac is just asking for trouble. What are they going to do, hack in System.IO.* Linux support after the fact? Or just add Linux.IO.* which is even more of a hack. In either case you're going to get very me…

Microsoft's focus on this release is the server. Mono plans on contributing to the effort our cross platform changes to Mono, to make .NET work great on Unix. Details here: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2014/Nov-12.html

After reading most comments here, the linked announcement, your blog post & some other websites, I only have one question left. If Microsoft releases their code under the MIT license, will mono follow suit and stop using the GPL?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#710

I've reverted to WIN32 because users can run a single file, bare bones EXE without the Permission Police blocking you. Too often users aren't allowed to install programs. A simple program that can run on anything since XP is a good solution around Microsoft's sandbox strategy and DLL hell and install programs are big problems. With wine you can even run your simple EXE on Linux and Mac. Native x86 means you run faste…

https://github.com/Squirrel/Squirrel.Windows
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