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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#701

Post by mindslight »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #599

This outcome makes me sad. Although I support legally recognized gay marriage with all the accompanying benefits such as hospital visitation rights and next-of-kin status (arguably these are the two real benefits), I most emphatically do not support the political correctness attacks on Mozilla's co-founder. Mozilla and the open source community have been gravely hurt by this move. The witch hunt to oust Eich from Moz…

> I am much less inclined to support Mozilla monetarily or in any other capacity from this point on. Call me a hypocrite, call me whatever you like, but I feel that strongly. This guy should not have been treated this way.

There were many more saying they would stop supporting Mozilla if he remained CEO. Brendan Eich is a victim not of Mozilla, but of the controversy-generating journalism industry. Keep supporting efforts for an open web and make sure you're running Adblock to avoid funding these parasites.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#702

Post by cmelbye »

EpicEng wrote: post #163
cmelbye wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla is perhaps a special case. In other organizations, I might understand that argument. To me, it feels like a case of cognitive dissonance when the organization promotes free speech, free expression, etc., while its CEO donates to organizations which restrict it. (Whether or not one agrees with that is besides the point. Mozilla's board does, which is what matters with this decision.)

>Whether or not one agrees with that is besides the point. Mozilla's board does, which is what matters with this decision. Mozilla's board put him there to begin with. This is not a moral issue for them.

Mozilla's board is, in fact, not omniscient and may not have foreseen this controversy.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#703

Post by return0 »

ubernostrum wrote: post #657
return0 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe i have to say it, but donating to a cause, no matter how misguided, is meant to effect the public opinion in a certain way through certain channels. Asking for his job, his head or his property because of his opinions is bullying [mob rule is a better term], not civil discourse!

Proposition 8 was not a campaign to change the political views of people. It had but one purpose, and that purpose was to declare a subset of the population legally unequal to everyone else.

Everything is political, unless you presume that laws come from nature or from god. If we 're all defacto equal vs marriage, then i could marry my 6-year old cousin.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#704

Post by uchi »

danpalmer wrote: post #111
nostrademons wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

>Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

Dude, what?

What if he doesn't feel it was wrong? Furthermore, who the fuck cares what he believes and what he spends his money on in his own PRIVATE time? That's COMPLETELY outside of his job at the Mozilla foundation which he's been working at just fine for 15 fucking years.

Your comment genuinely irritates me.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#705

Post by quaunaut »

angersock wrote: post #527
matthewmacleod wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who actually were directly and personally affected by Eich's actions in donating, of which there are quite few compared to the number of people weighing in on this? Is this the case? There are a whole bunch of LGBT people working at Mozilla, and in the wider tech community. On top of that, there are families and friends of these people, who while not being personally affected can certainly legitimately object…

"damage done to their close peers" Again, what damage, and how does that get traced directly back to Eich? The law was repealed, marriage reinstated, and everything's fine. The system worked, so what's the issue? And a "whole bunch"? How many? Numbers? Percentage? Let us not suspect--we are in the Information Age. Google your way to success. The only number we have is $1000 from Eich to support Prop 8--that's the onl…

How is that not enough evidence? He paid $1000 to the campaign. Since the outrage began, he has said nothing to nuance his position, nothing to talk about changing his mind, nothing to make his employees or contributors feel like he had their best interest at heart.

And furthermore, are you really trying to say we should have to directly tie how that money went into the Prop 8 bank account and then was spent to influence voters in California?

You're making completely irrational requests. Showing up at an anti-civil rights protest back in the 60s may not have directly influenced someone to keep their mouth shut out of safety(and how would you prove that it did), but it has an influence and to act like because you can't directly tie it to someone is to absolve people of any past wrongdoings short of force.

Changing your mind is okay. Saying you were wrong is okay. They need to be, as society grows and matures. But the same as the risks taken by those who try to push society's opinions ahead of itself, if you lag behind you're just as likely to get hurt.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#706

Post by codeoclock »

I've seen some people defending him for various reasons, most prominently because he has a right to free speech. Of course he has a right to free speech, and he exercised it. He also has the responsibility to accept the consequences. His actions/speech made enough people angry enough to exercise their speech to the extent that Eich's position was no longer tenable.

People too often forget that rights don't mean that there will be no consequences to exercising those rights (within the bounds of the law, and other things).

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#707

Post by momentarily »

danpalmer wrote: post #111
nostrademons wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

The Catholic Church said as much to Galileo.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#708

Post by lotsofmangos »

nostrademons wrote: post #60
phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

I'd rather someone who acts like Carter on the issue of abortion. Someone who unapologetically states their opinion, states publicly why they hold that opinion, and then follows it up with why the role they are promising to uphold requires that they put that opinion to one side and represent the beliefs of the people they are leading instead.

You can only do this successfully if you are prepared to discuss the reasons for your opinions in public. Eich isn't.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#709

Post by quaunaut »

xaa wrote: post #699
clavalle wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech doesn't mean no consequences for your speech -- it means the government cannot interfere with your speech (within reason). When you make political speech it is necessarily public not a privately held opinion. He made a political donation showing that he supported a law that curtailed a group of people's natural Right. That donation was used to try and affect public policy. That is not some theory he holds…

Let me put it a different way, since the term "free speech" admittedly has many different connotations. My day job is as a scientist. In science, individual researchers put forth many different ideas, some right, some wrong. Over time, we come to a consensus on which ideas are right and wrong, and the right ideas are kept and the wrong ideas are dropped. However, we don't blackball people who had the wrong ideas: on…

> I don't want to live in a society where people have to fear for their jobs or a public mob action because they espoused an unpopular opinion. I disagree with Eich's opinion today, but tomorrow I could be in the minority. Yes, the wrong ideas can be harmful, but in my opinion if we have an open marketplace of ideas, rather than the "chilling effects" of political correctness (or religion, or any other force that says that there are unspeakable ideas), the truth will eventually out.

But there's no difference between the two. Society has come to a consensus: Gay Marriage is okay. It isn't gonna end anybody's world.

If you're still arguing the other way- especially to a group who have held this consensus longer than most- of course you probably shouldn't be at the head of the organization. That'd be like denying climate change while being the head of an environmentalist organization that had been started in the 50s.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#710

Post by momentarily »

Crito wrote: post #252
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

Nobodies' right to have different viewpoints is being taken away. Nobodies' right to donate to political causes is being taken away. The only people in this entire story that were/are trying to take away the rights of others were the people who pushed for Prop 8. The right to support legislation like Prop 8 remains intact. The right to not be criticized by others for doing so has never existed in the first place. The…

Mobbing someone out of employment isn't a right, either.
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