AI is removing the middle class of software engineering? • Hacker News Board

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#701

Post by win311fwg » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:26 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #414

overgard wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of think the whole "Learn to Code" push of the 2010s was one of the worst things that happened to our industry. Call me a gatekeeper if you want but, we ended up with a lot of people that just can't do the job. The problem is our industry mostly doesn't have any sort of reasonable mentorship or apprenticeship culture, so we've always left it to the engineers to teach themselves. Sink or swim. The problem is th…

The whole "learn to code" and software bootcamp craze always baffled me. Like what other profession markets themselves as "Hey, our job is so easy that any schmuck off the street can enter the career with 4 months of training." Practically every other job I can think of at a similar salary level has entrance requirements (e.g. grad school admissions exams), extensive and expensive training, a lengthy apprenticeship p…

> The whole "learn to code" and software bootcamp craze always baffled me.

Why? While the rest of your comment explains why the plan failed, it seems like it should be pretty obvious why business would try to attract an increased supply. Hint: It puts downward pressure on price. Same reason they are trying again with AI.

> every other job I can think of at a similar salary level has entrance requirements'

Yes, the artificial restrictions on supply is how those careers have similar salaries. Other occupations moved to have restrictions so that they could have high salaries. Software never felt the need to do the same because the natural market propped up salaries just the same, but we'll see how long that lasts now before software practitioners panic and clammer for restrictions to prop salaries back up like the others. AI does actually seem to be making inroads where "learn to code" failed.

Granted, like as suggested at the top of this, the upper class of software engineers who have the necessary reputation and prestige to drive software towards being a licensed profession are not feeling the same pinch that the middle class is feeling, so that is going to make it hard to see restrictions come to fruition even now. When the upper class of software engineers start becoming afraid of shrinking incomes, that's when software engineering will start needing a license.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#702

Post by unknownfuture » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:27 AM UTC

NateEag wrote: post #478

e2le wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are probably imagining that it would be expert developers with a track record of success. I'll admit I am unsure how such individuals would be chosen. I imagine it would be prudent to learn what processes are used by other licensed professions when choosing such individuals. > who write lots of blog posts and books about programming and give lots of conference keynotes I do not think people who write blog posts…

> I would hope that any regulation is evidence driven. Have you found existing regulation in any field that's evidence-driven? My impression is that regulation is not made in a way that has much to do with evidence, but I would be delighted to be shown evidence I'm wrong.

Have you never heard the adage that regulations are written in blood?

Plenty of regulations in many many fields are evidence based.

Sure, many are not.

But to make such a blanket statement is absurd.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#703

Post by m3kw9 » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:28 AM UTC

This is why I think if you are need a 20x plan to code/do software engineering, there is no way you will read most of it, and it is likely 100% slop. A rare few can use it and not create a mountain of tech debt in a few days of use.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#704

Post by timr » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:30 AM UTC

nocman wrote: post #670

timr wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, sure. So now we have the worst of all possible worlds: an expensive interview process where the candidate has to be onsite, and a stupid evaluation mechanism that doesn't at all reflect real-world job requirements. And in exchange for the inconvenience of an in-person interview, the candidate gets treated like a number and is met with a stupid memorization gauntlet that tests a skill that quite literally will n…

> an expensive interview process where the candidate has to be onsite I'm sorry, but if I'm doing the hiring, the person who isn't willing to come on site to do an interview will be one of the first people off the list to hire (I mean, unless it is a remote job, and the person is nowhere near the employer, obvious exceptions would apply). In-person interviewing can be extremely valuable. Will it filter out every bad…

> I'm sorry, but if I'm doing the hiring, the person who isn't willing to come on site to do an interview will be one of the first people off the list to hire

Nobody said anything about not coming on site. That's how we used to do it, in the ancient pre-history of 2019. What I said was that if you bring someone on site only to leetcode them, you deserve not to hire anyone.

The downside, of course, is that you don't have the cheap, dumb pre-filter of a memorization test anymore, so you'll have to figure out a better way to winnow down the applicant pool whom you're willing to pay to bring on site.

Maybe finally software engineering will achieve a level of interview maturity seen in other professional fields...but I doubt it.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#705

Post by hemc4 » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:33 AM UTC

> AI makes projects with weak engineering culture fail much faster.

Love this quote. Already seeing so many codebases which became unmaintainable.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#706

Post by edot » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:34 AM UTC

level87 wrote: post #474

It’s difficult to have spent a long time learning something, only for that thing to suddenly become accessible to anyone; something that was once scarce and valuable is now abundant and cheap. There are still machinists doing things by hand, but for real production or prototyping, most will now use a 5-axis CNC machine. It still requires an operator of sorts, but much of the work that once required skilled manual mac…

My understanding of manual machining in the modern day is that only really big or really specialty jobs (as in, just a weird process that there isn’t a good CNC machine for) are done manually anymore. But specialty and low volume, which is exactly where LLMs are nice because I can spec it exactly how I want. I wonder what the software equivalent of “big” is. Like, you need a part made on a lathe with a 3 foot diameter throat, only one guy in a 500 mile radius has a machine that big, from 1962, so he’s your guy. That guy can stay in business with manual machining. But standard, high volume parts need to be on CNC to be competitive.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#707

Post by bluefirebrand » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:37 AM UTC

win311fwg wrote: post #665

bluefirebrand wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> someone who constructs a building by applying judgment, experience, and craftsmanship as they go would be considered an artisan, craftsman, or something to that effect rather than an engineer. That seems closer to the world you like to live in Yes absolutely. I don't call myself an engineer, I'm a developer. Software Engineer is a title that my jobs give me, but I'm rarely given the time or resources to do any engi…

> I'm rarely given the time or resources to do any engineering. Are you sure it is that you are not given the time rather than your artisan ways consumes your time 'unnecessary'? Failure in (most) software isn't going to harm anyone, so there isn't much technical need for engineering in software. As I am sure you can attest, artisans are fully capable of delivering great software. Some of the best software out there…

> Are you sure it is that you are not given the time rather than your artisan ways consumes your time 'unnecessary'

I'm not certain of much these days, but I'm pretty sure of this.

Any time I have tried to properly "engineer" something with documentation and specs and planning I've been told to just deliver it instead

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#708

Post by mrheosuper » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:39 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #614

arcboii92 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said "code was always the easy part" recently so I should probably explain where I'm coming from. I think the practice of software engineering includes that "understanding of the relationship between code, business, people and teams" you mention, which essentially boils down to the ability to skillfully design a system - regardless of whether it's a big cloud-based web application or a tiny cli tool for use with…

Sure, I'm not saying design is easy either, but even if you have detailed user requirements, a fully spec'ed out UI, and some general technical requirements, translating that to (working) code is still really, really difficult. I used to do a lot of interviews in my previous career, and I can't tell you the number of times I'd be interviewing someone who could talk a good game, but the second it got to writing code,…

"Talk is cheap, show me the code" - Linus

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#709

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:44 AM UTC

edot wrote: post #699

johnnyanmac wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't really answer the question. The relevant question with your example is "where is your wive's new business of brushing up other people's photos?"

That’s his point, there isn’t one. You don’t need bespoke software anymore. We’ve got the basics already, all the standards we’d ever need, the agents can figure out how to put them together for whatever thing specific you need.

Well I'm not sure if that's a convincing premise, then. If micro libraries customized for the user's needs was all that was needed we wouldn't have most of the net moated out by overly invasive social media.

Even if people could find the tools, they won't seek it if a one button solution can come to them. But we can't outcompete Instagram in a prompt, nor some popular app.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#710

Post by Animats » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 2:45 AM UTC

jselysianeagle wrote: post #463

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole "learn to code" and software bootcamp craze always baffled me. Like what other profession markets themselves as "Hey, our job is so easy that any schmuck off the street can enter the career with 4 months of training." Practically every other job I can think of at a similar salary level has entrance requirements (e.g. grad school admissions exams), extensive and expensive training, a lengthy apprenticeship p…

> Like what other profession markets themselves as "Hey, our job is so easy that any schmuck off the street can enter the career with 4 months of training." For one, the industry never did professionalize to begin with, certainly not in the way accountants, lawyers etc did. We never had any real body that could certify proficiency, which is what contributed to companies having to resort to leetcode and other such sty…

> Like what other profession markets themselves as "Hey, our job is so easy that any schmuck off the street can enter the career with 4 months of training."

- Submarines.[1]

- Homeland Security [2]

[1] https://www.buildsubmarines.com/

[2] https://www.dhs.gov/homeland-security-careers