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Your phone is about to stop being yours

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#701

Post by nikonyrh »

Anonyneko wrote: post #173
anonymousiam wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my informed opinion, anybody who does banking on their phone is taking a big and unnecessary risk. I wish I could say more.

See, the thing is, here you can't use banking on your computer without having a bespoke authentication app on your phone. There used to be a system of one-time codes sent via paper mail, but even that has been scrapped by now, so using bank ID apps is literally the only option across all of the local banks. In my bank the ID app and the bank app are even different apps, and it's the ID app that's the truly important…

At least in Finland's Nordea bank you can order a physical code calculator, they used to be small enough to keep on your wallet but the new one is the size of an old small phone. It even has a QR scanner. So I just keep it at home.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#702

Post by dfxm12 »

Xunjin wrote: post #16

Let me play out a scenario, imagine to use a Desktop Hardware like a complete built rig, you would need a specific OS like Windows 11 and you could not run Linux on it, just because it's a vendor lock-in. Why is this acceptable for phones but would not for the case above? I know a lot of people don't care, and that's ok, but we should root for an open choice for the users.

In general, vendor lock in is the natural state, especially under capitalism. Being able to (so easily) install Linux on a PC is an exception.

On the topic of Windows, it took lawsuits to allow OEM's and users to remove IE.

Open choice will always be an uphill battle.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#703

Post by TeMPOraL »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #205
hightrix wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If computers were invented by the Silicon Valley of the 2020s, this would absolutely be the case.

To be fair, many early computers were tied to the OS.

But they didn't have technology yet to do it properly, so it was trivial for people to sever the tie and install alternative OSes - trivial enough that it was also easy to teach others how to do it.

Now, the tech to make that tie near-unbreakable exists.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#704

Post by ivell »

brookst wrote: post #686
jlokier wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with Google accounts, it's not hypothetical, it's a risk. People do occasionally get locked out of being an Apple developer for reasons they cannot foresee. > Apple has locked my Apple ID, and I have no recourse. A plea for help* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46252114 > Apple bans entire dev account, no reason given https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44601548

It’s still rhetorical sleight of hand. I could have a stroke that leaves me unable to program. Does that mean I am not truly free to program today? Those are risks, but they do not change the on-the-ground reality today, and the claim was that users, today, cannot use these device as general purpose computers.

We can use them today as general purpose computers, if we make a large effort to do so.

In my Linux and Mac, I dont think twice to quickly write a script to automate some pain-in-the-butt issues. But with my phone, it is pain-in-the-butt to write anything. It becomes not worth the effort.

Moreover, we can argue if technically it is a general purpose computer for whole day long. But that's not the point.

The point is that we are allowing gradually the big organizations to restrict general purpose computing, the internet and other previously free systems. It is happening slowly, where we can still give them the benefit of doubt. We are the frogs in the kettle where we are arguing that the temperature is just one degree more than earlier, so it is not actually boiling. We can keep on arguing about the temperature or step back and see the big picture where it is going.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#705

Post by ubermonkey »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #583

Someone here on HN used the term "cloud terminal" for modern electronic devices, and I think that is a very fitting name for phones and tablets. They are definitely not computers because they do not actually give the user access to general purpose computing in the sense that the users can control exactly what computations the device is going to execute. They are just terminals whose production costs we cover but whic…

Super predictable for HN to trot out the "tablets and phones aren't computers" line.

It's still wrong. Countless people use them for all their computing needs. Overwhelmingly, though, these people are not the sort to comment on HN. They are Regular People, not Professional Computer Touchers, and their needs are absolutely met.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#706

Post by engeljohnb »

brookst wrote: post #668
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if they don't give you an apple dev account, or close yours, you can't. Case in point.

Did you just move the goalposts from “you can’t run arbitrary code today” to “hypothetically, in the future, Apple could prevent running arbitrary code”?

Anything that needs Apple to say "yes" before it runs is not "arbitrary."

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#707

Post by 4ndrewl »

lordfrito wrote: post #684

From my point of view I don't see anything wrong with knowing a little bit more about the person behind the app I'm trusting to do my personal compute on my personal device. Personally I always think twice when I download apps from company's whose names I don't recognize. Same with PCs... do you really want to run that *.exe you downloaded from that cool site you found? Changes like this will help keep developers hon…

Sounds like a classic astroturfer. Did you read tfa? Perhaps engage with some of those arguments already made on that page eg wrt ID.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#708

Post by exe34 »

brookst wrote: post #667
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #583

Someone here on HN used the term "cloud terminal" for modern electronic devices, and I think that is a very fitting name for phones and tablets. They are definitely not computers because they do not actually give the user access to general purpose computing in the sense that the users can control exactly what computations the device is going to execute. They are just terminals whose production costs we cover but whic…

IDK, not really a fan of redefining computer to make a rhetorical point. It seems counter-productive to tell people the computing device they think as a computer isn’t really a computer. It’s like saying my car isn’t really a car because I can’t adjust spark timing. Someone could make that semantic argument but it’s hard to imagine anyone would care.

Is it still a "car" if it only takes you to the train station and forces you to use public transport? "shuttle" might be more appropriate? Is it still your car if it leaves during the day and carries other people?

The meaning of words drifts when the situation changes.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#709

Post by StrLght »

lordfrito wrote: post #684

From my point of view I don't see anything wrong with knowing a little bit more about the person behind the app I'm trusting to do my personal compute on my personal device. Personally I always think twice when I download apps from company's whose names I don't recognize. Same with PCs... do you really want to run that *.exe you downloaded from that cool site you found? Changes like this will help keep developers hon…

> Same with PCs... do you really want to run that *.exe you downloaded from that cool site you found?

Yes, I am fully capable of making decisions about what software to run on my personal hardware on my own, thanks. I don't need Apple or Google or Microsoft to make this decision for me.

They're trying to fix social engineering. It's simply not possible.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#710

Post by mironathetin »

karlzt wrote: post #258

This is the most important part: >> Developers Do not sign up. Don't join the program by signing up for the Android Developer Console and agreeing to their irrevocable Terms and Conditions. Don't verify your identity. Don't play ball. Google's plan only works if developers comply. Don't. Talk other developers and organizations out of signing up. Add the FreeDroidWarn library to your apps to warn users. Run a website?…

I think you are right and I voted your contribution up. But you don't really think it will work? Developers were kings once. Big companies turned them into slaves.
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