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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#701

Post by komali2 »

its_magic wrote: post #141
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see much of a point in replying with this comment. It reads like your point is "I don't understand your perspective so it must be wrong", which is folly. If you're looking for a suggestion of how to gain such an understanding, I've certainly got one of those: put more effort into arguing in favor of perspectives you disagree with. Not only will it help you to understand the disagreeable point of view, it will…

Your perspective is you want to take my hard-earned money and give it to some pothead to sit at home and "do artwork." My perspective is I'd rather keep my weed money to myself. And that's exactly what I shall do. Want to fight about it? Your plans to rob society even more than your ilk already do are selfish, idiotic, and will end in ruin--deservedly so. I have spoken.

Someone built the road to your house. Someone built the road to that road, and the road to that road, and the only reason the grocery store nearest you exists is because of this network of roads and people living near these roads that makes the region valuable enough to bother putting a grocery store in.

The libertarians in New Hampshire tried the ultra libertarianism you seem to be pitching here and it resulted in two things: unquenched fires, and bear attacks.

Trying to separate yourself completely from your responsibility to society is foolhardy. It hurts you more than it hurts us.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#702

Post by [deleted] »

closewith wrote: post #626
jimnotgym wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it so polarising in Ireland, or just hn?

Good question. The public consultation was 97% in favour, although half the respondents were receiving the pilot payment at the time. Following the announcement of Budget 2026 last October, I think this expenditure came into sharp focus, as the budget was considered to be almost hostile to workers and families, and anecdotally I think it has become more controversial since. That said, it is not unpopular, just polari…

[deleted]

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#703

Post by dahart »

closewith wrote: post #626
jimnotgym wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it so polarising in Ireland, or just hn?

Good question. The public consultation was 97% in favour, although half the respondents were receiving the pilot payment at the time. Following the announcement of Budget 2026 last October, I think this expenditure came into sharp focus, as the budget was considered to be almost hostile to workers and families, and anecdotally I think it has become more controversial since. That said, it is not unpopular, just polari…

Overwhelming consensus is polarising? How so? It sounds like the exact opposite of polarising.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#704

Post by whywhywhywhy »

jimnotgym wrote: post #625
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s “corporate masters” got to do with a transaction from taxes and inflation (stolen value on your savings and spending power) to a handout?

Where in the world do they tax your savings? Are you against all taxation?

Inflation is a tax on savings. Yeah I'm against almost all taxation, the amount I pay a month is more than most people monthly salaries in my country and I just don't think I get the level of society back from it to justify me being rinsed this much.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#705

Post by whywhywhywhy »

gruez wrote: post #458
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> banana taped to a wall Taking this on face value without the rest of his oeuvre as context and value is being disingenuous.

Looking at the wikipedia page it looks like the "context" was "I was only pretending to be stupid". What am I missing?

Yeah what a shock an artist who's previous works include a lifelike sculpture of Pope John Paul II hit by a meteor was doing something comical

https://www.perrotin.com/artists/Maurizio_Cattelan/2/la-nona...

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#706

Post by parineum »

9rx wrote: post #678
parineum wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> building new to make homes more affordable No need to build new, a plethora of affordable homes are available.

If one was freely able to move about the entire world you may have a point. Especially given current events, I am not sure the country in which that house is located would take kindly to many of us moving there. In a more practical reality you're not going to find anything for anywhere close to that price even in the middle of nowhere, never mind somewhere where everyone wants to live. That is where earlier comments…

> That is where earlier comments suggest building more housing would help.

I explained earlier why I don't think it would. The places with a housing "shortages" are the places where everyone wants to live. Those places would have to build an impossible number of houses to affect demand.

You have people saying they can't afford housing and then, when you show them they can, they say, "not there..."

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#707

Post by b112 »

komali2 wrote: post #695
b112 wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on earth are you even talking about? The person in my description would be housed, fed, safe. To this you say, we're well beyond the scarcity that would require this. Believe it or not, people still work to produce almost everything. While aided with machinery, farmers are human beings and work. People actually physically build houses. Everything that you own, is assembled or manufactured from components and par…

> Do you not realize how completely selfish that is? It's completely out of touch with the whole dynamic of people working to produce goods, and other people just getting those goods without effort. The vast majority of our wealth is already stolen by megalomaniacs so they can buy big useless yachts. I'd give up twice as much if it meant the local crackhead got not just a house, but a PS5. At least the crackhead is f…

This is an insane perspective.

I just gave them life, vs death. I just gave a little of myself, so they don't starve, aren't going to freeze to death, and are safe. Yes, I don't want them comfortable. You think this means I wish suffering, when I just helped them?

Absurdly selfish. "Why not give more!! How dare you only prevent starvation, giving housing, and ensure safety!! What's wrong with you!", you say?!

Blathering on about wealth and the rich is an absurd tact to take. We're talking about the fact that a person toiling every day, is giving to another who isn't. No hand wavy gibberish, will change that the house was built be a human being, one that isn't wealthy, and is paying a portion of their daily work (it's called taxes) to house someone.

If you want to donate your own effort and work to help people beyond that, no one is stopping you. But don't walk around complaining to others that giving basic necessities aren't enough.

You need to get your head on straight.

If you want to discuss the economic system and the rich, that's an entirely different conversation. Discussing the working person's need to house those that aren't working?

Keep that real.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#708

Post by 9rx »

parineum wrote: post #706
9rx wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one was freely able to move about the entire world you may have a point. Especially given current events, I am not sure the country in which that house is located would take kindly to many of us moving there. In a more practical reality you're not going to find anything for anywhere close to that price even in the middle of nowhere, never mind somewhere where everyone wants to live. That is where earlier comments…

> That is where earlier comments suggest building more housing would help. I explained earlier why I don't think it would. The places with a housing "shortages" are the places where everyone wants to live. Those places would have to build an impossible number of houses to affect demand. You have people saying they can't afford housing and then, when you show them they can, they say, "not there..."

> Those places would have to build an impossible number of houses to affect demand.

If houses were able to be built freely then everyone would be able to build a house... Except, if you can't afford a used house, you most definitely cannot afford a new one. As before, time and materials are the real killer. The used housing market is merely a reflection of the cost to build new. Same reason used cars have risen so high in price in recent years: Because new cars have even higher prices.

> You have people saying they can't afford housing and then, when you show them they can, they say, "not there..."

The trouble is that you confuse affordability with sticker price. I technically could live in that house for six months before I have to return back to my home country, but I could not legally work during that time. It is far more affordable to pay significantly higher prices in my country for a house and work all year long. The price of that house is low, but the cost is very high.

The places everyone wants to live are the places everyone wants to live because they are the most affordable places to live. If it were cheaper to move somewhere else, the people would have moved there already. Humans love to chase a good deal and carve out an advantage for themselves. However, a low price doesn't mean cheaper.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#709

Post by closewith »

dahart wrote: post #703
closewith wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. The public consultation was 97% in favour, although half the respondents were receiving the pilot payment at the time. Following the announcement of Budget 2026 last October, I think this expenditure came into sharp focus, as the budget was considered to be almost hostile to workers and families, and anecdotally I think it has become more controversial since. That said, it is not unpopular, just polari…

Overwhelming consensus is polarising? How so? It sounds like the exact opposite of polarising.

There definitely isn't overwhelming consensus the above figure suggests, as the public consultations always heavily lean towards interested parties (I didn't learn of the consultation until after it closed), but any topic that sharply divides opinion can be polarising.

The cohorts at each pole don't have to be equal size, and for now, there are definitely more in favour than against in Ireland.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#710

Post by dahart »

closewith wrote: post #709
dahart wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overwhelming consensus is polarising? How so? It sounds like the exact opposite of polarising.

There definitely isn't overwhelming consensus the above figure suggests, as the public consultations always heavily lean towards interested parties (I didn't learn of the consultation until after it closed), but any topic that sharply divides opinion can be polarising. The cohorts at each pole don't have to be equal size, and for now, there are definitely more in favour than against in Ireland.

What opinion is sharply divided and why?

Far more in favor than against completely supports my speculation that basic income for artists is easier to publicly justify than basic income for all. You argued sharply with that, but have so far provided only evidence in support of what I said. I would love to hear why, exactly, you claimed this issue would somehow poison the idea of basic income, and why you don’t agree with the idea of getting it approved for small groups in stages.

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