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The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

noheger.at

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Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#701

Post by froddd »

pilif wrote: post #695
froddd wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely true. The demo in the original article seems quite deceptive in that respect. Nobody would attempt to resize a window by launching their cursor at the corner with great speed as the demo shows. The resize pointer seems to show in exactly the right place, and allows for an extra hit area slightly outside the rounded corner — I don’t see any problem with that. As for the fact that one cannot resize f…

> As for the fact that one cannot resize from inside the window, if you check the screencast I posted, you'll see that you can indeed resize from inside the window. Not by a huge margin, but definitely from inside the actual window boundaries.

Indeed, just enough. And the correct resize pointer shows all along the rounded edge, so I agree, this doesn’t seem like the problem it’s made out to be.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#702

Post by TonyTrapp »

AlienRobot wrote: post #285
Lammy wrote: post #43

Compare to Aqua and Platinum where every resizable window/pane had a big square drag target clearly labeled as such with some diagonal lines: https://guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/system/managers/filema... https://guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/system/managers/filema...

Windows also used to have a "grip" indicator. Nowadays I only see this in resziable textboxes in browsers...

To be fair, this grip indicator only (and still) exists when the window has a status bar. It's part of the Windows status bar design, not of the window design. Of course, many more applications used to have status bars than they do now, so that's why you see it less often.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#704

Post by echoangle »

phearnot wrote: post #610
drob518 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, the programmers aren’t to blame here. In fact some of the visual effects they have achieved are pretty cool. The designers are at fault because they prioritized visuals over usability. Literally nobody I know thinks “Liquid Glass” has been an improvement. The feedback is universally negative.

I suppose it’s exactly the programmer’s job to make sure cursor grabs the edge of the curved window border, not the arbitrary point outside.

Is that something the programmer decides or are they just implementing what the designer decided?

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#705

Post by zecg »

morshu9001 wrote: post #654
pentagrama wrote: post #353

This feels like a surprisingly good moment for Linux desktops to position themselves as real alternatives and actually gain ground. MacOS Tahoe has been heavily criticized for its UI decisions, especially Liquid Glass, which many people feel actively hurts usability rather than improving it. On the other side, Windows keeps piling on user-hostile features, dark patterns, and friction that increasingly frustrate power…

If you applied these standards of critique to Linux UIs, this post would be an entire encyclopedia, indexed by DE. I'd take even the worst modern Mac OS (Lion?) over that.

I feel like people who say this haven't seen KDE in a very long time. On a thinkpad it not only "just works", it works flawlessly, never demands attention without justification (i.e. no ads or superfluous items in notifications), every bit of hardware works, all the special keys, fingerprint reader and it's all recognized and usable and configurable from KDE.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#706

Post by Sweepi »

froddd wrote: post #700
Sweepi wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody would attempt to resize a window by launching their cursor at the corner with great speed as the demo shows. ... great speed? Interpolating from the zoom, I would say its not fast at all.

I’m referring to the demo in the original article. The mouse pointer moves rather rapidly onto the inside of the window. You can just about see the resize pointer flashing as the user does so. I don’t think I ever attempted to resize a window with such erratic mouse movements. Approaching the corner at reasonable speed shows the resize pointer where expected.

> I’m referring to the demo in the original article. The article from noheger.at? I am also referring to it. My guess is that the pointer speed is exaggerated due to zoom of the gif, and/or that we are using the mouse in different ways.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#707

Post by jdiff »

echoangle wrote: post #704
phearnot wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it’s exactly the programmer’s job to make sure cursor grabs the edge of the curved window border, not the arbitrary point outside.

Is that something the programmer decides or are they just implementing what the designer decided?

More than anything it looks like a value that was forgotten and never updated from past versions where the radius wasn't so severe.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#708

Post by wt__ »

Wyverald wrote: post #409
projektfu wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I especially liked the part with the hand trying to grab the plate. Perfect imagery.

That was a sensible chuckle indeed... but then it also made me realize that grabbing things IRL _moves_ them, not _resizes_ them. Nothing IRL really resizes. So while it makes a lot of sense to grab inside the object to move it, IMO it actually makes less sense to grab _inside_ the object to resize it. (Imagine the reverse argument -- IRL you can actually grab the middle of the plate to move it, but if grabbing the m…

> IRL you can actually grab the middle of the plate to move it

Really wouldn't recommend it though, all sorts of consequences for the food (if present), your hand, the hygiene of the plate and potential damage to underlying surfaces. Generally preferable to pick it up and put it down again.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#709

Post by carlosjobim »

TheDong wrote: post #415
carlosjobim wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux doesn't have much in the way of quality apps for people who aren't programmers, server administrators, or gamers. Most people want to get productive work done with their computer, and OS X has top tier apps for every need possible. No good e-mail app, no good office apps, no good calendar app, no good invoicing app, no good photo editing app, no good designer app, etc

> people who aren't programmers > No good e-mail app, no good office apps, no good calendar app, no good invoicing app ... People who aren't programmers use Gmail, Google Docs, Google Calendar, Stripe Invoicing, etc for those various use-cases. Firefox and Chrome work just fine on Linux, so Linux has all the apps people actually use these days on computers.

The only people I meet who voluntarily use web apps in their day to day are Linux users who have convinced themselves that it is good enough because there aren't any good native apps on Linux.

And then you of course have corporate, who will not switch from Windows.

Nobody will voluntarily spend all day working within Gmail or Google docs.

You also conveniently cut out photo editing and design in your quote.

Edit: Also I wonder if all you server-admins, programmers and gamers would have switched to Linux if your only option was to do your work or gaming within a laggy and inadequate web-app? But you want other people to suffer that.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#710

Post by GaryBluto »

chmaynard wrote: post #168

This controversy could have been avoided if the GUI changes in Tahoe had been opt-in only. In other words, the Sequoia GUI should have remained the default, with the option of choosing to switch to Liquid Glass.

When has Apple ever really allowed you to do anything like that?
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