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Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

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Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#701

Post by vl »

amtamt wrote: post #157

Way back in 90's, when I arrived on an Indian Railway station about 10 minutes before the train's scheduled time, I was pleasantly surprised to find the train at the platform. Only when I checked the passenger reservation list, I found this was train from yesterday, late by 23:50 hours. (for the curious... No, I could not get my reserved birth and had to travel on unreserved ticket, but at least I reached destination…

DB last year: I took train last year from Frankfurt airport to Bonn only to see Bonn sail past the window and train to go to Cologne.

I asked locals what is going on, turns out that all trains were late, and this train departed from the platform already marked for Bonn! “You should watch what train number you board on DB, not trust sign on platform!” locals helpfully advised me.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#702

Post by kenanfyi »

I read the story and I felt like the mentioned background characters in it, saying "Deutsche Bahn..." to myself at the end of every paragraph.

Once I was travelling back to home from Munich and the train stopped somewhere in Frankfurt in the middle of nowhere. Literally stopped on the tracks and it was completely dark outside except some far away lights from the houses around.

We waited for 3 hours, with 2-3 explanations which did not make any sense. After 3 hours the train started riding again and I arrived in Cologne, which is ~1h away from home still, and they said this is the last station. I needed to spend the night in Cologne in a hotel, because it was 3 o'clock in the morning and there was no other train to my hometown.

Fortunately I was able to get a refund plus the hotel cost for that night back.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#703

Post by qingcharles »

I often think about people in the USA, they might have some misdemeanor warrant for some traffic infraction they didn't know about on the other side of the country.

They get stopped for speeding near their home in Florida, the police arrest them, take them to the county jail where they are stuck without bond waiting for extradition to the county where the warrant was issued. You might wait a few weeks in a cell, then you can spend another five weeks stuck in the back of a van, pissing into a cup while they drive you 3000 miles to Seattle, stopping at 25 other jails on the way. Only for Seattle to give you a court date and kick you out of the door with nothing except the clothes on your back. Except it's 40°F and you were arrested in a t-shirt, shorts and flip-flops. The cops in Florida have your phone and wallet. You have no phone numbers. You have no money. You're 3000 miles from home. Good luck, champ!

(this is a real thing that happens regularly in the USA)

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#704

Post by tartoran »

Bewelge wrote: post #417

To all non-Germans who might get scared by this blogpost: While there's valid issues to complain about, this blogpost is really hyperbole. And frankly, to someone who has lived in the area, it reads purposefully disingenuous. Just enter the places he mentions on Google Maps. Everything in NRW is so close together that to travel between cities you can often choose between international trains, regional trains or even…

> Why did he stay on that specific train when he heard his stop would be skipped? The only reason I can think of is to write this blogpost. Since he's local to the area he should have known better.

Because the train didn't stop?

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#705

Post by oxag3n »

Following inflexible procedures to the letters and not to the spirit reminded me Swissair Flight 111, any aircraft fire today would result in quicker decision to land nowadays. I think Swiss are even more strict than Germans (at least when I lived there and frequently traveled to Germany), it's a blessing and a curse.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#706

Post by Kinrany »

akudha wrote: post #402
BloondAndDoom wrote: post #131

I feel like we lost humanity somewhere in modern world. I grew up in 3rd world country and if this were to happen, train would literally stop somewhere, anywhere. (With the assumption it’s safe from crewing into another train). But the idea that you go 55 minutes just because of policy; and skip 15 stations is crazy to me. Again with the assumptions that it can safely stop somewhere for 5m and I’m pretty sure the ans…

I feel like we lost humanity somewhere in modern world I feel the same. It is easier to hide behind rules, regulations, bureaucracy etc. Not saying we should stop following rules, but using a bit of common sense and having a bit of compassion would go a long way. I also remember reading about a train that Japanese railways kept running, just for one kid , she took the train to school. They kept it running until she f…

The story is a bit suspect in that surely it would be more efficient to just hire her a taxi once a day. Even an expensive Japanese one.

I suppose it would be slightly inconvenient to her to change habits, as well as a bad precedent. Still, hard to accept there was no additional factor involved in the decision.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#707

Post by spankibalt »

hylaride wrote: post #395
PurpleRamen wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general reason is, the rule exists for a reason, and the "low worker" does not understand the bigger picture, so you should follow it blindly before doing something harmful you can't foresee. It's not always working well, but to be fair, also not always bad. Knowing how much you can stretch the rules can be an art which takes a long time to acquire.

Some cultures are more sticklers for creating and following rules and bureaucracy than others, though. A good example: Here in North America I'll jaywalk without a thought if there's no traffic. In Germany, you'll get grandmothers calling you a child-killer for setting a bad example if you did the same. Another example: Both France and Germany spend roughly the same amount (in raw Euros) on their militaries. France (…

> "In Germany, you'll get grandmothers calling you a child-killer for setting a bad example if you did the same."

Yeah, some Bavarian villagers can be hylariously weird. I, personally, have jaywalked all my life growing up in East and West Germany, and I only got "the lecture" twice: once in deeply pious Bavaria, and once in... Spain. Both involved the rolemodel-shaming routine as kids were to be seen, but only one came with a small fine attached.

> "Here in North America I'll jaywalk without a thought if there's no traffic."

Most likely not a POC and not from NY or Washington D.C., I see (I'm reporting for a friend). Ah, anecdotes. The spice of life!

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#708

Post by tartoran »

saagarjha wrote: post #256
dominicq wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the downvotes to your comment absurd. The downvoters seem to me what Kaczynski called "oversocialized". They accept being taken against your will because the system says that's how it's supposed to work. And then rationalize their conformity with apparent consequences (medical emergency services not providing care elsewhere, you being penalized for a fake call, and so on). It shows a concerning lack of agency…

I agree that the decision made by the train here sucks, but I think it's pretty clear that the use of "kidnapped" is hyperbole. You are not "kidnapped" if the bus driver refuses to let you get down in the middle of the freeway. The situation is a little similar if the driver is taking you to somewhere you don't want to go, because that is also what a kidnapper does, but that's where the similarities end.

The use of "kidnapped" is hyperbole and a bit click-baity but that does not change the story much though.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#709

Post by _DeadFred_ »

ploxiln wrote: post #508
Telemakhos wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a lot like industrial safety culture: blame the process, not the worker, so we can iterate on the safety built into the process if there is a failure, because doing so lessens the chance of future failures. It’s a great way to build airplanes.

Theoretically ... in practice, Boeing's most rigorous days in the 80s and 90s were directed by empowered individuals in the manufacturing org, and when it went full "strict process only" in the 2000s and 2010s the quality fell.

It's also leaving out that system only works (worked) for building airplanes because it happens (happened) to be an industry with a hugely passionate workforce. Switch it to contracted out wage slaves and 'the system' doesn't work. Because the system never 'worked', many passionate people worked via sheer force of will/desire/care/investment into the final product. It was about the people all along.

Re: Kidnapped by Deutsche Bahn

#710

Post by kqr »

Telemakhos wrote: post #477
this_user wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much in German work culture - and also culture in general - is about covering your own arse. If you follow the procedure, even if the outcome is disaster, you are not at fault; you were just implementing the rules, and you cannot be held accountable. It's the fault of whoever came up with the rules, except that is usually not a single person, but some amorphous entity that ran through some decision making process…

That sounds a lot like industrial safety culture: blame the process, not the worker, so we can iterate on the safety built into the process if there is a failure, because doing so lessens the chance of future failures. It’s a great way to build airplanes.

Industrial safety must (if it is to be effective) recognise that people are an important part of the process! They're so often forgotten, with disastrous results.

People need to be given timely information, communication channels, and authority to straighten things out when they go awry. That's good for safety!

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