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Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

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Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#701

Post by realty_geek »

dang wrote: post #615
hax0ron3 wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to the OP of the thread, he's just using Patel's title word-for-word. It's Patel who is being inaccurate.

Oh that's clear, and the submitter didn't do anything wrong. It's just that on HN the idea is to find a different title when the article's own title is misleading or linkbait ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ). The best way to do that of course is to find a more representative phrase from the article itself. That's almost always possible but I couldn't quite swing it in this case.

dang!! I have so much respect for this ironic situation where we are discussing the superpowers of AI while a very human, very decent being ponders deeply on how to compose a few words to make a suitable title. Please can we have a future world where such events can always happen every so often.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#703

Post by simianparrot »

dreambuffer wrote: post #509
LarsDu88 wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This world model talk is interesting, and Yann Lecunn has broached on the same topic, but the fact is there are video diffusion models that are quite good at representing the "video world" and even counterfactually and temporally coherently generating a representation of that "world" under different perturbations. In fact you can go to a SOTA LLM today, and it will do quite well at predicting the outcomes of basic co…

Photons hit a human eye and then the human came up with language to describe that and then encoded the language into the LLM. The LLM can capture some of this relationship, but the LLM is not sensing actual photons, nor experiencing actual light cone stimulation, nor generating thoughts. Its "world model" is several degrees removed from the real world. So whatever fragment of a model it gains through learning to comp…

Here's how I've been explaining this to non-tech people recently, including the CEO where I work: Language is all about compressing concepts and sharing them, and it's lossy.

You can use a thousand words to describe the taste of chocolate, but it will never transmit the actual taste. You can write a book about how to drive a car, but it will only at best prepare that person for what to practice when they start driving, it won't make them proficient at driving a car without experiencing it themselves, physically.

Language isn't enough. It never will be.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#704

Post by awesome_dude »

throwaway-0001 wrote: post #692
awesome_dude wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that was my point, I generally regurgitate. A person can do that a lot in life. That's why people are conflating LLMs for AGI. For now, I think that the key difference between me, and an LLM is that an LLM still needs a prompt. It's not surveying the world around it determining what it needs to do. I do a lot of something that I think an LLM cannot get do, look at things and try to find what attributes they h…

Your fist prompt was just biological. So if I make an ai with an a prompt and tell him to re prompt itself every day for the rest of his life means is smart now? Or just because I give him the first prompt is invalid? I doubt your first prompt was given by yourself. Was probably in your mums belly your first prompt. —- I could give an initial prompt to my ai to survey the server and act accordingly… and he can re pro…

I do tire of your attempts to "corner" me into something I have no interest in doing.

I don't believe you have the capacity to understand why AGI hasn't been realised yet, and, frankly, I doubt you ever will.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#705

Post by mrklol »

spjt wrote: post #553

The thing about AGI is that if it's even possible, it's not coming before the money runs out of the current AI hype cycle. At least we'll all be able to pick up a rack of secondhand H100's for a tenner and a pack of smokes to run uncensored diffusion models on in a couple years. The real devastation will be in the porn industry.

I also don’t think our generation will see actual AGI, but imo the hard "intelligence“ part isn’t needed as we can use our intelligence. Using it as a tool will hopefully lead to plenty of cool things in the future.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#706

Post by [deleted] »

Animats wrote: post #683
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interview which I've watched recently with Rich Sutton left me with the impression that AGI is not just a matter of adding more 9s. The interviewer had an idea that he took for granted: that to understand language you have to have a model of the world. LLMs seem to udnerstand language therefore they've trained a model of the world. Sutton rejected the premise immediately. He might be right in being skeptical here…

> The interviewer had an idea that he took for granted: that to understand language you have to have a model of the world. LLMs seem to understand language therefore they've trained a model of the world. Sutton rejected the premise immediately. He might be right in being skeptical here. That's the basic success of LLMs. They don't have much of a model of the world, and they still work. "Attention is all you need". Go…

[deleted]

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#707

Post by anothernewdude »

LarsDu88 wrote: post #443
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interview which I've watched recently with Rich Sutton left me with the impression that AGI is not just a matter of adding more 9s. The interviewer had an idea that he took for granted: that to understand language you have to have a model of the world. LLMs seem to udnerstand language therefore they've trained a model of the world. Sutton rejected the premise immediately. He might be right in being skeptical here…

This world model talk is interesting, and Yann Lecunn has broached on the same topic, but the fact is there are video diffusion models that are quite good at representing the "video world" and even counterfactually and temporally coherently generating a representation of that "world" under different perturbations. In fact you can go to a SOTA LLM today, and it will do quite well at predicting the outcomes of basic co…

None of those models can learn continuously. LLMs currently can't add to their vocabulary post training as AGI would need to. That's a big problem.

Before anyone says "context", I want you to think on why that doesn't scale, and fails to be learning.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#708

Post by qlm »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #356
qlm wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language isn't thought. It's a representation of thought.

If it were that simple, LLMs wouldn't work at all.

I think it explains quite well why LLMs are useful in some ways but stupid in many other ways.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#709

Post by qlm »

naasking wrote: post #335
qlm wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language isn't thought. It's a representation of thought.

Are the particles that make up thoughts in our brain not also a representation of a thought? Isn't "thought" really some kind of Platonic ideal that only has approximate material representations? If so, why couldn't some language sentences be thoughts?

The sentence is the result of a thought. The sentence in itself does not capture every process that went into producing the sentence.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#710

Post by Terr_ »

SR2Z wrote: post #391
hackinthebochs wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs aren't just modeling word co-occurrences. They are recovering the underlying structure that generates word sequences. In other words, they are modeling the world. This model is quite low fidelity, but it should be very clear that they go beyond language modeling. We all know of the pelican riding a bicycle test [1]. Here's another example of how various language models view the world [2]. At this point it's just…

The "pelican on a bicycle" test has been around for six months and has been discussed a ton on the internet; that second example is fascinating but Wikipedia has infoboxes containing coordinates like 48°51′24″N 2°21′8″E (Paris, notoriously on land). How much would you bet that there isn't a CSV somewhere in the training set exactly containing this data for use in some GIS system? I think that "modeling the world" is…

> Wikipedia has infoboxes containing coordinates like 48°51′24″N 2°21′8″E

I imagine simply making a semitransparent green land-splat in any such Wikipedia coordinate reference would get you pretty close to a world map, given how so much of the ocean won't get any coordinates at all... Unless perhaps the training includes a compendium of deep-sea ridges and other features.

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