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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#701

Post by reissbaker »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #274
reissbaker wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do those sanctions even work? Well, you mentioned "North Korea still builds nuclear weapons," but didn't mention Iran having them. So, something worked. It wasn't 100% just sanctions... But the sanctions certainly hampered their ability to acquire effective air defense. (The NK sanctions were too late — NK had already started nuclear weapons testing before the sanctions were levied.) Off the top of my head: I don't t…

> But the sanctions certainly hampered their ability to acquire effective air defense. Effective air defense against military superpower (and they were effectively fighting against American technology) is something very hard to build, with or without sanctions. Ukraine is a good proof: Russia was denied air superiority using manned aircrafts but they still manage to inflict significant damage with missiles and drones…

Denying external economic pressure affecting the USSR seems... Wishful, in a certain direction. As does denying that sanctions have helped prevent Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon, which it has clearly been working on for a very long time, and repeatedly failing to acquire.

Regardless, you don't have an answer to Libya's nuclear program being shut down due to sanctions, and South African apartheid ending due to sanctions. Do sanctions have a 100% success rate? No. But they have a much higher success rate than jeans and heavy metal.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#702

Post by breppp »

figmert wrote: post #657
breppp wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are of course aware that Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds killing thousands of people

Hi I'm Kurdish. I'm 100% aware, heck my mother still cries in front of me remembein some of the horrors she saw. I'm also aware that we, the Kurds, have arguably benefited the most from that war. But that does not negate the fact that the US lied about Saddam having WMDs.

A New York Times investigation by C.J. Chivers revealed that the dismantlement of Iraq’s CW program was not as clear-cut as originally thought. The investigation revealed that approximately 5,000 chemical warheads, shells, or aviation bombs were recovered following the 2003 Iraq war. [15] Although all of these munitions were produced before 1991, they did pose serious hazards; at least 17 American soldiers and seven Iraqi police officers were exposed to CW agents. [16] A subsequent investigation by Chivers and Eric Schmitt revealed a major CIA-run effort, Operation Avarice, to purchase old chemical weapons that were on the Iraqi black market. The program purchased and destroyed over 400 Borak rockets, many of which contained sarin. [17]

https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/iraq-chemical/

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#703

Post by true_religion »

fennecbutt wrote: post #685
N_Lens wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a casual “pound-me-in-the-ass prison” top comment on HN (no this type of prison isn’t civilized or the mark of a mature criminal justice system or society).

Totally agree. But tbf you look at modern media and these things are still perpetuated. Just look at violence done on camera and off camera in TV shows and to whom. Which jokes are made and about whom - many don't even notice because it's so acceptable to treat a class, gender, etc a certain way that it doesn't even cross anybody's mind.

To be actually fair, the notion that OP's comment was referring to only men is entirely left to the reader to decide.

Women can be SA'd in prison by other prisoners, and additionally have to contend with the petty humiliations from guards taking unnecessary sexual turns that they wouldn't with men.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#704

Post by somenameforme »

simianparrot wrote: post #674
somenameforme wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this needs much "teaching." We overthrew their secular democracy in 1953 and installed an extremely unpopular autocratic monarchy. They were then overthrown in a "real" revolution in 1979 which is when they became an Islamic Republic. Since then we've spent decades trying to overthrow their government, actively assassinating their leaders and scientists, bombing their country, providing material support…

Sanctions are not war crimes by any definition. I am fully aware of the US' history in the middle east, as well Europe's role and my own country within Europe. But that doesn't mean we should accept this kind of rhetoric from enemy states. If you go down this rabbit hole of "historical rights", where does it end? The truth it it never ends. You go far enough back and we're all the assholes. So all we can do is move f…

This doesn't require any lengthy history. We're still killing Iranians regularly and pretty much arbitrarily, as well as backing Israel doing the same in a borderline psychotic fashion. And you're here fear mongering about them saying 'Death to America' which is pretty much the equivalent of waving a stick at somebody after they just burnt down your house with your family in it.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#705

Post by true_religion »

figmert wrote: post #652
miningape wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is the US government is so much more stable than Iran's? The US has been directly or indirectly involved in all conflict in the middle east in the past few decades, and the instability in the region is due to the US's failed foreign policy. Maybe the US should stop pretending they know what they're doing. The US can't keep domestic terrorism at bay, why are they trying in a foreign setting?

Because they don't want foreign opponents at a time when they're having trouble keeping their house in order?

Also, speaking frankly, there's an implications that people don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons because it's a Muslim country. This is false. It would be far palatable for Saudi Arabia or the UAE to develop nuclear arms because even though neither country is 'Christian' or 'democratic', they are at least allies.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#706

Post by somenameforme »

simianparrot wrote: post #670
somenameforme wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you visit Iran (or pretty much anywhere) as an American you'll have zero issues with the people. Here [1] is a thread of various people visiting Iran, and it's 100% typical. The average Iranian has no problems with an American than anybody else - they have a problem with the American government. And the two are obviously two extremely different things. The one piece of advice that shouldn't need to be said, but do…

And I wrote that the US is at war with an enemy _state_. The state represents its people, but it is not _all of_ the people. I always see people derailing these discussions in this manner when it's always patently obvious that we aren't conflating the two.

But you are specifically conflating the two. Not only in your implication that Iranians, normal Iranians - children even, want Americans dead, but in your defense of sanctions. Sanctions have no meaningful affect on countries - as in the political leadership and military, but can have a substantially negative impact on the people within that country. In many ways they are even more barbaric than war, because at least in war there is a viable goal and you are targeting the state and its military. Civilians are unfortunate 'collateral damage', not the target.

With sanctions you just inflict suffering on the people for no realistic reason or goal. The idea it'll drive people to overthrow their government and align themselves with the people inflicting mass suffering on them is just so inexorably stupid. It's not even illogical - it is anti-logical. I expect that one day it will be looked upon in the same way that today we might look back on drawing and quartering people as a punishment.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#708

Post by Ajedi32 »

tgma wrote: post #684
Ajedi32 wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a democracy, so Americans are, at least on a collective level, responsible for the actions of their government, though not on an individual level of course. Iran is a theocratic autocracy. Only the autocrat and his supporters bear any significant responsibility for the actions of the government there.

The US is not a democracy, by design. It’s a Constitutional Republic.

A democratic constitutional republic. Often simply referred to as "a democracy" as a shorthand.

The key distinguishing factor being that in a democracy powers are derived from the consent of the governed, as opposed to other forms of government (including some "constitutional republics") which do not allow open democratic elections.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#709

Post by amai »

m101 wrote: post #399

To the comments that talk about Iranian politics: Iran under a monarchy will do well, perhaps even limited democracy. The monarchies of the Arab world seem to be doing well, and not by chance. Democracy alone is not good for any country in the long run imo.

Jeah, democracies are for loosers. What did democrats ever do for us, apart from aqueducts?

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#710

Post by pengaru »

e-khadem wrote: post #304
vintermann wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A revolution also isn't easy when you know that the revolutions you could have, would be the ones supported by foreign groups that absolutely don't want your country well. USA on no account will tolerate an Iran which is both free and democratic and at all economically developed, because they don't trust a democratic public to support pro-American policies in the middle east - especially related to Israel and oil. Ju…

I would argue that not every society will thrive under a democracy. The people must be somewhat educated, politically savy, considerate, and accommodating. At least this has to be true in the beginning of a democracy where the people are laying the foundations. Now I agree that the policies of the United States may not always be in the interest of the people from that part of the world, but a "mild" dictator like the…

"Democ­ra­cy is the worst form of gov­ern­ment, except for all the oth­ers"
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