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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

hugotunius.se

701–710 of 1001 posts

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A sensibly configured [desktop, i.e., not just a headless server] Linux system is very secure compared to your mobile device. That is not true. It is understandable that you believe it because it gets repeated a lot, but those repeaters are doing what you are, namely repeating what they heard (and sometimes what they want to be true) without sufficient actual knowledge of what they are talking about.

It is fairly true, what is your definition here? The main attack vector today is malicious mails being opened. These usually don't target linux systems and fail to execute. Sure, it is circumstancial security, but exploits exist for mobile devices as well.

Media decoders are an important attack vector. Examples include PDF viewers and the library that produces thumbnails for display by the file browser. (One way to attack a media decoder is to get the user to open a malicious email, but there are other ways.)

The web browser is an important attack vector, and there are no Linux distros that sandboxes the browser anywhere near as effectively as Android and ChromeOS do except maybe Qubes, but Qubes is stuck using X for the display server and using Zen, both of which have been abandoned by their maintainers and aren't receiving enough maintenance attention to fix security vulnerabilities. I.e., Qubes's reputation for security probably comes from the fact that it was relatively secure many years ago.

Android and ChromeOS use selinux to sandbox the browser. Fedora uses selinux, too, but it only sandboxes server software: any program including a web browser started by the user is unconstrained (unaffected) by Fedora's selinux implementation.

The kernel is another important attack vector (and Linus has always been bored by and impatient with security considerations.)

Ditto the C library. Note that GrapheneOS uses a special, hardened C libary (which in the last few years has migrated to at least one security-focused Linux distro, namely, secureblue, but of course none of the people that show up here on HN proudly proclaiming that Linux is more secure than iOS or Android use secureblue, and the lead of the secureblue project freely admits that MacOS iOS Android and ChromeOS are more secure than secureblue is).

You know how one of the arguments for Wayland is the fact that there is no way to prevent any process from reading the contents of any X window? Well, to actually achieve this "window privacy" inherent in Wayland requires active support from the compositor, and Gnome has the only Wayland compositor that actually provides this support.

Till the vulnerability started getting exploited some time last year, anyone could upload a theme to KDE's theme store that could run arbitrary code when the user chose to install it. No one was reviewing uploaded themes for malware or warning users of the danger.

Hyprland uses a trampoline (files at a known location in the file system that are occasionally executed by Hyprland) for reasons that are hard to explain if we assume that Hyprland's maintainers care anything about security.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#702
For anyone saying otherwise:

There is ONLY ONE valid way to check trust - it is called keyring.

All linux distributions do use it.

Think on how you use SSL certificates on your browser, now remember that you can always import your own Certificate authority.

As simple as that. Unless you have nefarious purposes.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that even the 'safe' devices should at least be open enough to delegate trust to someone besides the original manufacturer. Otherwise it just becomes ewaste once the manufacturer stops support. (Too often they ship vulnerable and outdated software then never fix it.)

If the user cannot be trusted to maintain the hardware and software, then the only responsible thing is to rely on the manufacturer to do so. In those cases, if the support is dropped you buy the newest device.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45081344

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#705

You can. You can jailbreak your iPhone. I assume you can do so with Android. Problem solved. Oh, you want to jailbreak it and use it as an authenticator? No. That doesn't seem like a reasonable requirement.

Jailbreaking iPhone doesn't let you install GNU/Linux on it.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have many ISPs to choose from. There are not many "Googles" nor "Apples" to choose from.

I have exactly one to choose from. Two thirds of americans households have exactly two, exactly the same number as the count of googles and apples.

Than your region has a problem that your government should work to fix. Just like the one with Google/Apple.

That's not a universal problem though, so random people on the internet won't relate.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#707
post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your smartwatch is probably more powerful than some of your past computers too. Same with your DSLR camera. Even your smart fridge. These are specialized hardware+software gadgets designed to a particular purpose, which is very different from being a development platform. Same with a phone.

>These are specialized hardware+software gadgets designed to a particular purpose, which is very different from being a development platform. Then I shouldn't be able to install software on it at all. For any given device either its functions are fixed, or they're modifiable at the sole discretion of the owner. There should be no middle ground.

> There should be no middle ground.

Why?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#708
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. The current security model of desktop OSs sucks. I was recently reminded of this by an issue at work. I'm used to devs having admin rights on their laptops, but here they closed that down: you have to request admin rights for a specific purpose, and then you get them for a week. I recently requested those rights again because I needed to install something new for a PoC I was working on, and that wasn't al…

It's not theater, your IT department just isn't implementing it correctly. I recently switched jobs and gave up one macbook pro for another (work issued). Company A gave me sudo access and I could do anything I wanted. Company B locks down everything, no sudo, no brew, nothing. But I do get a big VM with root to do anything I want. There is an approved "appstore" of many different varieties of IDEs/tools. TLDR: Not h…

Interesting. If you don't mind, I have a few questions:

1. Is the "big VM with root" running macOS itself, or a different OS?

2. Do you do any work on the bare metal version of macOS, or do you just start the VM in the morning and do everything from there?

3. How do you experience the performance/UX of the VM?

4. Do you know why Company B IT has set up this VM solution, instead of a plain old MacBook locked down with Apple's enterprise management tools?

5. Can you explain more about the App Store? Is it the actual Apple App Store but restricted to a curated set of apps, or is it a different system? If so, is the store a custom in-house thing or is it provided by a vendor?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#710

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

I don't own a phone, but the most shocking revelation came when my child's school required us to use an app to specify how our children will be picked up or ride the bus.

So far I've been able to avoid using apps for pretty much anything, but when the school says "use an app or you won't get your kids" and then also say they will call CPS and have your kids seized if you don't get them in time, that puts you in a real fucked up situation.

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