Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war • Hacker News Board

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#701

Post by lukan » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:21 PM UTC

vv_ wrote: post #664

lukan wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean we can also change laws again in europe (in favour of that) - but we could also keep it as a separate module. So the LTE chip only gets used for an emergency call and nothing else. No remote control. Unlikely to happen, but possible (not 100% safe, but good enough).

If you don't turn on the LTE chip, it can take a while to get registered or a network in order to perform an emergency call. If the LTE module is turned on (the same applies for mobile phones) the network operator will know your coarse location because of the LTE specification itself. Furthermore, all communication equipment is legally required to support Lawful Interception; and LTE is no exception to this.

Yes, that is sadly true, but they have that data via smartphones anyway.

But remote controlling the car is something different.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#702

Post by Jiocus » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:22 PM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #211

Jiocus wrote: post #10

The author mentions "military grade firewall", as a must have in a vehicle. Genuine question; What's a military grade firewall?

Such a thing exists though usually not called “military-grade” per se. It is more similar to a data diode [0] than a classic firewall but has significant differences from either. Data streams are converted into a sequence of objects that are required to have and satisfy certain formally verifiable properties as a pre-condition of forwarding. Any data or objects that cannot satisfy formal analysis requirements are dro…

Ah, yes that's true. I had actually forgot about this type of thing (did study infosec at uni)

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#703

Post by rurp » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:30 PM UTC

homefree wrote: post #478

unethical_ban wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Mazda from 2014 has this innovative feature: a digital control mechanism for my climate control, with real knobs! No more navigating menus and swiping across touchscreens to adjust temperature. And if I want to change the direction of the airflow? I just move the vent!

Yeah those suck - the vents often break, they’re ugly, they don’t work as well. The Tesla vents are great, the ui is good or can use voice. Other companies that attempt what Tesla does do it poorly with bad software.

I've driven Tesla's a number of times and absolutely hate the vent controls, they are wildly less precise and take much more attention than in any other car I've driven. I hate pretty much all gimmicky Tesla UX decisions and think most are categorically worse than the standard options.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#704

Post by ohthatsnotright » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:31 PM UTC

Gigachad wrote: post #323

averageRoyalty wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the concept, but the question I have is why? These companies have huge wallets, and can surely scoop up a smaller automative microcontroller company and bring it in-house? It seems like a problem than enough money could solve quickly, but they've been doing horribly at this for decades now.

The talent might not exist. Software development has been seen as the preferable career over electrical engineering for a long time now.

When I started my career I had a very keen interest in the embedded space, but when it pays half of what CRUD webapps pay I quickly changed to software only. I still tinker with embedded on the side and maybe at some point I can justify the cut in pay to go back to something I'd prefer to work on.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#705

Post by rconti » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:33 PM UTC

awongh wrote: post #638

DanielHB wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in similar systems and you are 100% right. 80% of the time was spent on communication protocols between the different boards and microcontrollers. QAing and solving issues from short-sighted dozens of unique custom protocols that worked in non-standard ways (every time a component needs to talk to another component a new protocol was invented). When you have dozens of communication lines required between dif…

For american cars at least, I read that one of the reasons this process exists is because car companies want to work around union rules for manufacturing by outsourcing components of the cars to subcontractors that they can make deals with. Ultimately it's a price control strategy to pit these suppliers against each other to lower costs. But it means that designing these electronic sub-systems isn't just a question o…

That smells plausible, but from my seat as am armchair car enthusiast, it seems that foreign automakers outsource components just as often.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#706

Post by rconti » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:38 PM UTC

LeonM wrote: post #559

metadat wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't understand this sentiment. Should all VW drivers have a "I hate Hitler" sticker on their car too? Because in case you aren't aware: VW was started by the German Labour Front (part of the Nazi party). Adolf Hitler himself oversaw early development of the first models. Why the need to apologize for the CEO of the company that you buy products from? Should we also have an "I hate Foxconn" sticker on every Apple…

I needed to replace the 12v battery in our Tesla a few months back, and was surprised to see a protest out front. I laughed to myself, glad I had driven my Porsche to the service center instead.

Thankfully, I said to myself, none of our non-Tesla cars have problematic histories.

(Mussolini, Hitler...)

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#707

Post by SR2Z » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:40 PM UTC

rossjudson wrote: post #469

homefree wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It makes me sad that a bunch of people who've never used/adjusted to the Tesla yoke are all but guaranteeing (via whining) that yokes are going to disappear. The yoke is great after you've adjusted to it, and I don't care about proportional steering at all . That's complexity I don't need.

Yokes will be fine - but only BECAUSE they can have variable ratios now.

Frankly, there are a lot of quirky design choices on a Tesla that make them unpleasant for me to drive:

- not being able to coast/disable regenerative braking

- the current implementation of the yoke and capacitive buttons outside the CT

- placing FSD/cruise on the shifter

I don't think these are "get used to it" things, I think they're actually worse UX for most people. I also think that Tesla implemented every single one as cost-cutting measures on a supposedly "luxury" car that's now falling further and further behind the competition.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#708

Post by qmr » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:45 PM UTC

ErrorNoBrain wrote: post #511

latchkey wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I wish they would install tiny horn buttons on all the vehicles in Vietnam! In that country, the horn is a method of communication, much to the ire of literally everyone trying to exist.

and here you can get a 100 euro fine, for using your horn. You can only use it, if its to prevent an accident from happening. that's it.

https://www.roadpeace.org/working-for-change/crash-not-accid...

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#709

Post by catigula » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:46 PM UTC

dingaling wrote: post #460

catigula wrote: post #405

Car software is so thankless and opaque. Look at the market landscape: literally nobody knows that Toyota produces the #1 system for automated driver safety aids (ADAS) and it isn't close - their current generation of vision/radar fusion sensors have the only car on the market that passes 2029 federal regulations for AEB (62mph to dead stop if an obstacle is detected being a metric that some other manufacturers calle…

ADAS is generally considered 'adverserial software', few drivers welcome it and many switch it off at ignition. So unfortunately regardless of Toyota's possible prowess in the field it's unlikely to receive many plaudits for focusing its efforts there.

I understand, but that's partially caused by compliance software being problematic.

Now with tightening federal regulations and lawsuits for faulty ADAS manufacturers are tightening the belt. Investment must be substantial for the 2029+ regs from all manufacturers. Toyota is just ahead of the game currently as of their latest offering and shows you their value as a company in being so.

To be honest, though, I'd be interested in exploring your premise. The statistics regarding ADAS from insurers shows a straightforward benefit in accident reduction.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#710

Post by MetaWhirledPeas » Mon, May 12, 2025, 2:47 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #471

homefree wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

My Mazda from 2014 has this innovative feature: a digital control mechanism for my climate control, with real knobs! No more navigating menus and swiping across touchscreens to adjust temperature. And if I want to change the direction of the airflow? I just move the vent!

The Tesla vents are definitely a debatable choice. I like them, but I acknowledge they are mostly an aesthetic choice. Many Tesla removals (stalks, etc.) come with a cost savings, but I don't really see it with vents. You're probably adding parts in the form of little motors and wires to power them. But they do fit with the theme of autonomy. Software can remember their position for each driver, or could hypothetically cycle through different positions depending on mode selection. (They might do this already but I don't pay close enough attention.)

Edit: Now that I think of it, it's possibly still a huge cost savings in that you can have interchangeable parts across all models, since the vents are hidden to the user.