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I'd rather read the prompt

claytonwramsey.com

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Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#701

Post by Kapura »

jameshart wrote: post #329
sn9 wrote: post #221

> I should hope that the purpose of a class writing exercise is not to create an artifact of text but force the student to think; a language model produces the former, not the latter. It's been incredibly blackpilling seeing how many intelligent professionals and academics don't understand this, especially in education and academia. They see work as the mere production of output, without ever thinking about how that…

I’ve come across this analogy that I think works well: Using an LLM to do schoolwork is like taking a forklift to the gym. If all we were interested in was moving the weights around, you’d be right to use a tool to help you. But we’re doing this work for the effect it will have on you . The reason a teacher asks you a question is not because they don’t know the answer.

forklift gym gang gang

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#702

Post by [deleted] »

indymike wrote: post #681
jameshart wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve come across this analogy that I think works well: Using an LLM to do schoolwork is like taking a forklift to the gym. If all we were interested in was moving the weights around, you’d be right to use a tool to help you. But we’re doing this work for the effect it will have on you . The reason a teacher asks you a question is not because they don’t know the answer.

> Using an LLM to do schoolwork is like taking a forklift to the gym. I'm sure the time has come for college students to master using LLMs. It's just as important as grammar or basic math now. The software I build (and the entire tech industry) automates huge swaths of business processes with AI. Students need to be able to understand, work with, and manage swarms of AI agents doing work. To stick to the analogy: I n…

[deleted]

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#703

Post by kipchak »

bumby wrote: post #356
mlsu wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of education isn't to actually learn though. It's to receive the credential. This is much larger than a cultural problem with the students of today. They believe, rightfully and accurately, that the university degree is yet another part of the machine that they will become a cog in. What should be alarming to everyone is that these students will graduate without having learned anything and then go into the…

This attitude is part of a more general cultural shift. Back in the 1960s, the majority of students said the primary motivation for going to college was to develop a philosophy of life, and a minority said the main goal was to be very financially successful. Somewhere around the 1980s this started to shift and the proportions are now inverted. * according to the UCLA CIRP freshman survey

Arguably the cause of the cultural shift is economic. Wages began stagnating in the early 1970s, which caused increased demand for diplomas as a way to increase wages. This is most striking in the number of students seeking law degrees, which shoots off at around the same time.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#704

Post by doctorwho42 »

indymike wrote: post #681
jameshart wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve come across this analogy that I think works well: Using an LLM to do schoolwork is like taking a forklift to the gym. If all we were interested in was moving the weights around, you’d be right to use a tool to help you. But we’re doing this work for the effect it will have on you . The reason a teacher asks you a question is not because they don’t know the answer.

> Using an LLM to do schoolwork is like taking a forklift to the gym. I'm sure the time has come for college students to master using LLMs. It's just as important as grammar or basic math now. The software I build (and the entire tech industry) automates huge swaths of business processes with AI. Students need to be able to understand, work with, and manage swarms of AI agents doing work. To stick to the analogy: I n…

But the thing you are missing is that one needs a solid foundation of knowledge of the actual work to be able to manage it well.

Someone with years of coding experience is going to be able to laser guide an AI agent to the answer/result than someone who has muddled their way through comp sci 101 using an AI chatbot.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#705

Post by ajmurmann »

nine_k wrote: post #436
animal_spirits wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, if a student can get a diploma without work, then the diploma does not have value anymore. If diplomas are no longer valuable, the signal they provide in the labor market will turn into noise. If employers no longer look for the diploma-signal in an employee, what will be the reason an employer will hire an employee? I think this story will become true, and society will radically shift into one where critica…

In a medieval guild, to be admitted as a master, an apprentice had to create a chef d'oevre, or masterpiece, so called for this reason. In the computer engineering industry, you increasingly have to demonstrate the same: either as a part of your prior work for hire, or a side project, or a contribution to something open-source. A diploma is still a useful signal, but not sufficient, except maybe for very junior posit…

I think software developers might be somewhat of an outlier. Industry wants good programmers but universities teach computer science which really should be called "computation science". Much of what we learn in university will hardly ever be used while many practical skills are at best learned as a side effect. Dijkstra favorite said that computer science is as much about computers as astronomy is about telescopes.

So degrees have been a weak signal for a long time. Several of the best developers I've worked with had no CS degree at all. As a result we have interview processes that are baffling to people from other industries. Imagine a surgeon having to do interview surgery, or an accountant having to solve accounting puzzles. AFAIK we are very unusual in this regard and I think it's because degrees are such a weak indicator and the same is true for certificates in our industry.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#706

Post by thesz »

jameshart wrote: post #329
sn9 wrote: post #221

> I should hope that the purpose of a class writing exercise is not to create an artifact of text but force the student to think; a language model produces the former, not the latter. It's been incredibly blackpilling seeing how many intelligent professionals and academics don't understand this, especially in education and academia. They see work as the mere production of output, without ever thinking about how that…

I’ve come across this analogy that I think works well: Using an LLM to do schoolwork is like taking a forklift to the gym. If all we were interested in was moving the weights around, you’d be right to use a tool to help you. But we’re doing this work for the effect it will have on you . The reason a teacher asks you a question is not because they don’t know the answer.

  > like taking a forklift to the gym.
First, you will have excellent forklift skills in the end. A real profession!

Second, girls dig forklift operators or so I was told.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#708

Post by chipsrafferty »

seabass wrote: post #576
kevinventullo wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I’ve found very helpful is when I have a murky idea in my head that would take a long time for me to articulate concisely, and I use an LLM to compress what I’m trying to say. So I type (or even dictate) a stream of consciousness with lots of parentheticals and semi-structured thoughts and ask it to summarize. I find it often does a great job at saying what I want to say, but better. (See also the famous Pa…

Your original here is distinctly better! It shows your voice and thought patterns. All character is stripped away in the "compressed" version, which unsurprisingly is longer, too.

What do you mean it's longer? It's shorter.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#709

Post by spatchcock »

I’m learning C programming at the moment, originally I was doing it to understand security vulnerabilities more deeply, but I’ve found that I really enjoy the mental exercise of it (and the benefits of that exercise in my career, life etc.) Hopefully the ideas in this article will get to a lot of people eventually, otherwise I feel that people are going to dig themselves in a hole with using LLMs and not thinking for themselves.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#710

Post by sizzzzlerz »

This is equivalent to students using AI to complete computer programming assignments. They misconstrue the purpose of an assignment as just one of generating output instead something to teach the principles and techniques they'll require later if they want a job in the profession. While they may believe they're fooling the teacher, all they're really doing is fooling, and cheating, themselves.

Whether it be writing or computer programming, or exercising, for that matter, if you aren't willing to put in the work to achieve your goals, why bother?

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