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How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

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Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#701

Post by marenkay »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #691
marenkay wrote: post #664

This makes a good argument against centralized production and knowledge. It would economically be much more reasonable if any good could be produced anywhere at any time. Smaller production facilities for localized sourcing. Would IMHO also be much more in line with a free market. Everyone would be free to source goods in any country or location of their choice. Coupled with open knowledge this could be a truly free…

You're asking for decentralization. There's a reason you often get centralization in industries: higher productivity due to network effects and/or economies of scale. Even within China this is true, as some areas are particularly known for manufacturing (or specific types of manufacturing). Spreading things out sound good until you realize it's doubled your costs or halved your productivity.

But I think we're missing an important point here: moving production to low cost environments just moves costs from business costs into external costs, putting them on society.

As for productivity, I think that's an issue that could be addressed but people generally avoid the answer to the why question.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#702

Post by spaceman_2020 »

philg_jr wrote: post #318
Izikiel43 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is also below replacement levels.

Not with immigration.

Immigration isn’t risk free

You get your birth rates up, but you also risk alienating your native born population and electing far right morons into office

Jury’s out on whether a tfr of 1.0 of native born people is better than a tfr of 1.4 with immigrants

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#703

Post by dom3k »

pjdemers wrote: post #677
rayiner wrote: post #42

Americans need to get over their view of “Asia” as being about making shoes. When I was working in engineering in the early aughts, we mocked the Chinese as being able only to copy American technology. Today, China is competitive with or ahead of America in key technology areas, including nuclear power, AI, EVs, and batteries. We need to anticipate a future where China is equal to America on a per capita basis, but f…

Darn right. Lots of smart, hard working, innovative people in China. And every single one of them would get on plane tonight if they could get a visa to live in US or UK (and a few other countries). So, which countries offer a better future for our children?

I'm from Poland, and I'm quite sure that 15 years ago you could say the very same thing here. Not anymore. Things change.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#704

Post by niemandhier »

decimalenough wrote: post #554
niemandhier wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all accounts, you do not get rich in china by work. I work with the most talented Chinese scientists and none of them expects to be wealthy at home, the best hope to be what would be middle class in the US. Unless they manage to get to the US they return, because they would not be safe from harassment anywhere else.

Scientists in most fields, sure, but that's the case anywhere. If you happen to be an AI expert though, pay at top Chinese companies is very competitive with Silicon Valley. Also, the structural inequalities of Chinese society dwarf the West, meaning that the Chinese middle class gets a lot more bang for their buck: ridiculously cheap delivery services, taxis, and other services.

Sure, but no Chinese person I know has forgotten that their government literally walled in people during Covid.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#705

Post by spaceman_2020 »

lolinder wrote: post #696
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a little more nuanced than that. Western demographics are largely propped up by immigration, which brings with it its own sociopolitical challenges. What you gain in demographics, you might lose in social cohesion and political stability.

It's a lot more nuanced than that. China's internal diversity is much higher than Westerners typically understand, and their social cohesion and political stability are less well maintained than their external-facing image would lead you to believe.

Yeah, but that’s not the same level of diversity as an atheist Frenchman and a muslim Algerian and a Christian Ivorian.

The Sichuanese might not get along with the Cantonese, but they’re ethnically the same people with a shared culture

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#706

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

lmpdev wrote: post #608
eyko wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth considering that certain industries (fisheries and agriculture for instance) are subsidised. It's in our national interest to maintain production capacity, so profits are the least of our concerns. Both the UK and the EU's agricultural sectors are heavily subsidised mainly for this reason. It's cheaper to import than to produce locally, especially with our environmental standards and targets, but we n…

That’s the biggest thing I took away from the whole Boeing corporate disaster You need to maintain at least a minimum amount of internal competency in almost all areas If you completely give away a capability to other countries (in this case, fishing knowledge and labour) it is much harder to bring back than just coughing up the money Those sectors you let die might not matter right now, but they might matter later.…

We buy local brands of shoes that are in inr 300-2000 range and that solves like 70% of the shoes market in India. From shoes to skippers to formal shoes to ladies heels and such. Then you gave INr 3000-8000 that are considered really really expensive.

Convert that to usd and you will see how much premium is being charged.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#707

Post by zppln »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #562
zppln wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cultural super power My impression is that Chinese culture has very little appeal elsewhere (at least in the West). They can't seem to be able to (or care to) package it in an appealing way. Sure, they're being catered to in films and video games but I see very little organic interest in Chinese culture, especially compared to Japanese or Korean culture.

It's true. It's changing though. Wu Kong Black myth and even the top grossing film of last year was chinese animation. See the comments under the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsiAYjyiIBM . The film was apparently incredible. The core culture of China is actually foundational to much of Asia. The stuff you see coming out of Japan and Korea is surface level aesthetics built on top of this foundation. You're…

Oh, I think they're already up there with the aesthetics, I just don't find the content appealing. I watched (on Netflix) some Chinese attempt at a Downton Abbey a few years ago, and the production value was through the roof, absolutely insane. But the actual writing was pretty vapid and it's still drenched in propaganda.

I've had similar experience with film. Just compare the stuff coming out of Hong Kong today with what came out during the 80's and 90's.

Comedy is another thing I don't see go on export any time soon...

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#708

Post by rayiner »

AstralStorm wrote: post #628
immibis wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US appears to be trying to end the reserve dollars. Something that surprisingly few people have mentioned recently is that having the biggest trade deficit is the same thing as being the global reserve currency . Because they're the same thing, ending one of them also ends the other. There does seem to be some sort of cycle in play: first a slave-driver-type economy creates a whole lot of wealth, then people get…

Ultimately you get out of this trap by making work sustainable and trying to level the playing field. Almost nobody is spending resources in the US. And that's half of the problem. It's spent elsewhere, therefore labor stagnates or falls, only leaving low tier jobs to work. No factories locks out advancement reducing morale and draining the best that could have their kids advance. In the US, you had skyrocketing pric…

> Ultimately you get out of this trap by making work sustainable and trying to level the playing field.

And you can't make work sustainable and level the playing field when you have free trade with developing countries.

People cite Ricardo like gospel, but the math of free trade treats every safety net, worker safety protection, etc., as a loss of "comparative advantage." You know how Texas takes jobs from California by having lower standards, lower wages, etc.? That's what happens when you have free trade with third world countries. It's a race to the bottom.

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#709

Post by gorfian_robot »

crazygringo wrote: post #182
gorfian_robot wrote: post #78

Nike doesn't sell shoes. Those are a loss leader. They sell you brand and lifestyle bullshit at a very high markup.

That's a bold claim. Do you have a source for that?

subtlety is lost. I am saying they aren't selling you $200+ shoes. They are selling you a shoe that maybe costs them $10 and $190+ of "brand".

Re: How much do you think it costs to make a pair of Nike shoes in Asia?

#710

Post by rayiner »

watwut wrote: post #433
sdwr wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is arguably the tail wagging the dog - Trump is a reaction to the end of US hegemony, not the cause

Trump has zero to do with previous level of US hegemony. He represents what large part of Americans are - for internal reasons that have nothing to do with geopolitics.

> Trump has zero to do with previous level of US hegemony.

> He represents what large part of Americans are - for internal reasons that have nothing to do with geopolitics.

No, it's all about geopolitics. Perhaps the most thorough analysis of the 2024 election concluded that Trump won 18-25 year old men (white + non-white). Trump did better among younger men than men 75+. Trump also won young white women. (See: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/18/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas...)

Whatever preconception you have about what motivates Trump voters, you're incorrect. MAGA is about the impending loss of America's stature due to immigration and free trade. It's all about geopolitics.

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