Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#701

Post by breadwinner » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 11:40 PM UTC

veidr wrote: post #683

breadwinner wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My assumption is that Trump understands what a mess he has gotten himself into and wants to extricate his head, without losing face. Congressional action will allow him to do that because he can blame congress for undoing his tariffs which was a good idea all along. This is the only way out.

You are laboring under the dubious assumption that Trump gives any fucks about the US economy. (And that, even more dubious, that the real-life congress will manage more than bloviation on TikTok.) This is a pure klept move. Who knows if he understands that the US manufacturing iPhones and cars-with-no-foreign-parts isn't possible in his lifetime (or most of ours), but regardless, he understands that this is his chan…

> dubious assumption that Trump gives any fucks about the US economy

I do believe that. If the economy crashes he will lose support from his billionaire friends. Also, the economy (along with immigration) was one of the top reasons people voted for him. I do believe he doesn't want to lose popular support. Currently GOP senators won't speak up against him because they know MAGA supporters will turn on them. But if he loses support GOP senators will be emboldened.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#702

Post by tim333 » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 12:24 AM UTC

beloch wrote: post #8

This is an inherently political subject, but I would appreciate a dispassionate argument explaining how this could be even remotely good for the U.S.'s economy in a way that is light on MAGA ideology and doesn't simply claim the overwhelming majority of economists are dumb. I'm simply not seeing even a glimmer of a possible upside right now. I see even less possibility of an upside for those of us North of the border…

I saw Peter Navarro saying US car plants were only running at 65% capacity and by tariffing foreign cars, the US plants could crank up and produce more. Not sure how true that is but that's the kind of thing that could be positive.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#703

Post by api » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 12:33 AM UTC

lunarlull wrote: post #662

api wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can I say except: I don’t buy that at all. I lived in Los Angeles for 8 years and Boston for 5. There are some cultural differences but the people there are still just human. When a region and a culture declines, it gets more nostalgic and reactionary. The arrow of cause and effect goes that way. Places like Detroit were innovation centers and much more culturally open before their entire economy was rug pulled.…

LA and Boston are both centers of creativity, curiosity and learning, without religion encroaching on every day life of guiding peoples thoughts. None of that is true for the rust belt or bible belt.

I lived in Southern California for 8 years and I'd say that Orange County and parts of LA are at least as religious as Southwest Ohio where I now live, maybe more.

It's a different kind of religion, a different vibe, but there's not less of it. There's also a ton of new agey stuff in California that is no more rational or secular than old school religion, just different.

Boston may legitimately be less religious and less superstitious, but I'd be surprised if it was by a lot. Again, the religion is just different. There's a lot of Judaism, mainline Protestantism, and Catholicism up there vs. evangelical Christian and new agey stuff elsewhere.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#704

Post by EasyMark » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:02 AM UTC

JeremyNT wrote: post #359

lenerdenator wrote: post #4

I was looking at used cars on Carmax about two or three weeks ago. I looked again today. They're another $1-2k. This is the shareholder/political class trying to eat their cake and have it too. Pay people a stagnant wage for 40 years while taking most of the surplus value and dedicating it to equities, then pretend to do something about it, but in a way that passes the buck to the people who have been making a stagna…

It amazes me the contortions some people go through to maintain the belief that this administration is competent. Occam's razor suggests that they just have no idea what they're doing.

This regime is one Man, tRump, who surrounded himself by yes men. He doesn't have any sort of negative feedback cycle now to keep a cap on how much damage he can do to the economy. Either they owe him something, they are part of the MAGA cult, or they stand to make money by bending the knee (like Bezos and Zuck and Husk).

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#705

Post by geenkeuse » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:09 AM UTC

sebmellen wrote: post #366

cycomanic wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was bringing this up with a guy yesterday who was genuinely supporting the policies and somebody chimed in that they were not worried at all, because everyone wants to trade with the big boy in town. Trust is not important if they are afraid of you (I'm paraphrasing). Quite a different perspective, but it is consistent with an observation I made about a lot of US comments, people are quite happy for their country/g…

Devil’s advocate: If you (the US) massively subsidize the world order through your financial markets, military defense, and foreign aid, it’s only fair that you get to take advantage of your position. Historically, the US has done this at the expense of its working class. Now there is a populist feeling that we are owed a long due “payback” for our generosity. The Bernie/AOC left believe the payback is owed by our el…

[dead]

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#706

Post by EasyMark » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:11 AM UTC

veidr wrote: post #683

breadwinner wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My assumption is that Trump understands what a mess he has gotten himself into and wants to extricate his head, without losing face. Congressional action will allow him to do that because he can blame congress for undoing his tariffs which was a good idea all along. This is the only way out.

You are laboring under the dubious assumption that Trump gives any fucks about the US economy. (And that, even more dubious, that the real-life congress will manage more than bloviation on TikTok.) This is a pure klept move. Who knows if he understands that the US manufacturing iPhones and cars-with-no-foreign-parts isn't possible in his lifetime (or most of ours), but regardless, he understands that this is his chan…

Trump does care about his base, if his base support starts dropping, he will look for the escape hatch. His ego and narcissism need that, bigly.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#707

Post by throwaway473825 » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:16 AM UTC

giardini wrote: post #672

cycomanic wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was bringing this up with a guy yesterday who was genuinely supporting the policies and somebody chimed in that they were not worried at all, because everyone wants to trade with the big boy in town. Trust is not important if they are afraid of you (I'm paraphrasing). Quite a different perspective, but it is consistent with an observation I made about a lot of US comments, people are quite happy for their country/g…

cycomanic says> "Europeans seem to be much more susceptible to an "if you don't want it to be done to you don't do it to others" argument" While they may "talk the talk", Europe doesn't "Walk the walk"! Europe has strong tariffs on imports. The USA is now simply equalizing the situation. Here's an example: Automobile Tariffs by Country 2025: put your cursor on a country to see its automobile tariff. European tariffs…

That's a bad example. The US already had higher tariffs on vehicles if you include the chicken tax.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#708

Post by elcritch » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 2:02 AM UTC

AyyEye wrote: post #111

Centigonal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As global GDP grows, it becomes increasingly burdensome for the United States to finance the provision of reserve assets and the defense umbrella I don't understand. US share of global GDP is around where it was in 1980, and in 1995[1]. Is Miran arguing that America's "exorbitant privilege" of being the source of the world's reserve currency, literally being able to buy goods from any country in the world with mone…

You and I don't get to print money. Other classes do.

Even being “close” to where the money is printed gives you enormous benefits. Average Americans don’t get this. Companies like Black Rock gain enormous power over the US and other nations.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#709

Post by lunarlull » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 2:13 AM UTC

api wrote: post #703

lunarlull wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LA and Boston are both centers of creativity, curiosity and learning, without religion encroaching on every day life of guiding peoples thoughts. None of that is true for the rust belt or bible belt.

I lived in Southern California for 8 years and I'd say that Orange County and parts of LA are at least as religious as Southwest Ohio where I now live, maybe more. It's a different kind of religion, a different vibe, but there's not less of it. There's also a ton of new agey stuff in California that is no more rational or secular than old school religion, just different. Boston may legitimately be less religious and…

So it's an issue of fundamentalism, maybe. Those areas like LA and Boston might be as religious in many ways as rust/bible belt places, depending on the metric, but they fundamentally are not confusing a day old zygote with a developed fetus, insisting the earth is literally 6000 years old and dismissing the idea we came from 'monkeys', they don't have issues with homosexualty to the same extent and maybe even belong to a church that is fine with it, etc etc.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#710

Post by danaris » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 2:26 AM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #680

csense wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "if you don't want it to be done to you don't do it to others" Doesn't work. We opened trade to China in the '70s. They took advantage of us, stealing IP, manipulating currency, paying their people terrible wages, crapping all over the environment. We let their companies freely in the US, they very severely restricted US business ventures in China. Detroit, a former shining city in the industrial heartland, is now…

>In the US, a person used to be able to graduate high school and get a job that could support owning a house with a yard, a non-working spouse, a car, and multiple children A lot of the change there is not down to China but limiting the ability to build a cheap house through nimbyism and regulation and then competition from other dual income / high earners bidding everything up. You could fix it by allocating everyon…

What? No; the problem is vastly more attributable to the tremendous transfer of wealth from the working classes to the wealthy that has occurred over the past 50 years.

Look at any graph of earnings by quintile over time, or of income or wealth inequality today, and you'll see that the fact that builders can't cut corners and sell us crappy houses and apartments that will fall down around our ears is far from the primary reason we have trouble affording things today.