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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#701
To me the HN comments are even more interesting than the event itself. Politics is rarely at HN so it was a rare chance to see the opinions about this topic.

Most commenters have highly inadequate view of the Ukrainian situation. I wonder why. Even in highly censored and manipulated universe of western information space, there are enough facts to form more adequate views. What makes people ignore the facts and stick to the wrong views?

I suspect it's because of a feeling instilled, that sticking to these opinions makes them good people. If you #StandWithUkraine you become a kind of a moral hero.

Paradoxically, this confirms the need for brainwashing in mass politics. If normal, sufficiently intelligent and developed audience can not form adequate views of political questions, somebody needs to guide their views.

Unless some new technology or social organization emerges, that allows public to form a balanced and adequate opinion, some guides will need to brainwash the public.

But when the guides are themselves inadequate, troubles happen.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#702

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

I don't know what answer you expect. I think you didn't really miss options (broadly speaking), but your interpretation of each option is opinionated, and this is extremely opinionated topic (obviously). So I wouldn't say you are wrong, you are just... opinionated.

1st one isn't really about "buying time". The prolongation of conflict is not a "side-effect" here, it's the whole point. And IMO it's a solid plan, honestly. If I was a citizen of the USA without any morals or inclinations to travel abroad, I would probably support it. This isn't a 100% solid plan, there are actually some questions if it works as it was supposed to work, but the incentive here seems blatantly obvious to me: war weakens Russia, weakens Europe, and nobody cares about Ukraine anyway, so by investing into the war carefully USA ends up winning, same as after WW1 and WW2. To me, the game plan is obvious here. It's just cynical, and that's why Biden (and other public-speaking supporters of the plan) would never say it as it is. No real politician would.

As to Europe wanting that... well, I would say it seems current EU leadership wants that, and I have pretty hard time explaining why, so I'll leave it aside. If you want some random data point: I, as a European citizen definitely don't want that. I don't doubt the majority of my fellow EU citizens would say they "support the support of Ukraine", but I don't find it surprising, given all media outlets chant 24/7 about how horrible Russia/Putin is.

I mean, yes, that's kinda saying "I think I know better than these guys", but I just don't see any benefits for the actual people (not governments) living in EU. This war hurts the economics, it hurts the relationships, and I personally have relatives in Ukraine, so I just want it to stop. I don't care on which terms, and obviously it cannot be the terms on which the war started. It's way too deep into the conflict and too many lives lost to call it a good outcome, but it's the best outcome.

So, not being a citizen of the USA, I am in favor of that alternative which is "as stupid as it sounds", the last one. I mostly have problems not with the option itself, but with the fact that for Trump to want it is not enough for it to happen. Because, as stated, a lot of people don't want this to happen, and it almost seems like Trump is mistaking being POTUS for being God. Meaning, the way he is doing things is stupidly blunt. It might work, it might escalate things more. In any case, having all of HN whining about how ashamed they are of their president is not a good start. And that product he helped BBC to make works awful for him and his plan.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#704
When I look back at it, Dugin was right back in November:

"So we have won. That is decisive. The world will be never ever like before. Globalists have lost their final combat. The future is finally open. I am really happy."

https://x.com/AGDugin/status/1854136340184490282

Dugin wasn’t exaggerating when he said, “We have won.”

Today’s White House display is exactly what he meant. A decade ago, the GOP would’ve never echoed Russian talking points. Now, they’re openly aligning with them.

This isn’t just isolationism—it’s the dismantling of U.S. hegemony from within.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#705

If European leaders don't watch this and realise they need to take control of their own destiny they're idiots. Several European leaders visited this week bending the knee to try and stave off tariffs. Time to stand up, realise the US is no longer a reliable ally, and start building (on all fronts - military, manufacturing, tech, etc). Given the American people voted for this guy twice - the second time in spite of J…

We need a constitutional convention to fix the legislative branch. People in Wyoming should not have 10x the representation as people in California. Without the complicity of the legislative branch Trump's power would be limited much more.

We need mixed-member districts and eliminate the senatestate connection and/or repeal the 17th amendment. Bicameral is no longer suited for the world we live in.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#706

Things like this make it seem like China will be much more likely to try and retake Taiwan soon. Seeing things like this, it is hard to imagine that the US will help defend Taiwan by providing military aid. I can imagine that trump will try to ask for something in return first. Even something like trump asking for TSMC to be sold to trump supporters (musk and others) seems likely to happen.

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#707

Bit of a tangent, but I wondered if anyone here is particularly into the serious business of foreign affairs/international relations, and can recommend a primer -- or even a curriculum -- for someone wanting to become more knowledgeable about the field. As with anything, I suspect one is better able to appreciate the ramifications of events of this sort with a more nuanced and informed perspective.

Well, if you want to understand Russia, China, and Trump, read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Law_of_Nations

That's how politics was done before WW2.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#709

I got this weird dissonance - like this was a science from a TV show about the White House, because no-one, I mean no-one would ever do that inpublic. Apart from common courtesy, even basic management training says praise in public, criticise in private. Just doing this in front of the world’s media … it’s hard to understand

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