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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

whitehouse.gov

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#701

Post by johnnyanmac »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #655
timoth3y wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with a highly sympathetic Supreme Court it is hard to imagine this EO standing. It goes against the foundation of not only US law, but couple of hundred years of international democratic tradition in which allegiance is not to a person, but to the nation itself. US civil servants and military alike swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution not the president or their commander. Illegal orders are not o…

If the Supreme Court and Congress has no enforcement power, though, what recourse is there?

Congress has all the enforcement power, they can impeach the president whenever they want. Will they? I don't know, he's already gone so far in constitutional overreach that he's making Nixon blush.

Judiciary has more power than you'd think too. It's just that they try to act in good faith and generally do not want to throw people into civil contempt that often. The SCOTUS can even re-re-interpret the presidential immunity that Trump has abused to a pulp if they are angry enough. That was their call after all.

Will they do this? Highly unlikely, at least for Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if Musk flies too close to the sun, however.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#702

Post by grandempire »

unethical_ban wrote: post #265
grandempire wrote: post #30

The only rebuttal I see in the media is that congress set these up to be “independent”. But our government doesn’t have independent branches. In fact that sounds a lot like “unelected and unaccountable”. So which branches are these agencies under? Is it in the judicial, legislative, or executive - and if it’s in the executive why can’t the chief executive manage business? On the other hand, one of the issues brought…

>But our government doesn’t have independent branches. Yes, it does, by the nature of them existing and Congress establishing them. Show me where in the Constitution that they can't do that.

Powers are enumerated in the constitution. So it’s not a question of what the constitution says they can’t do.

It would be strange if congress can designate untouchable officials. Why don’t they just grant themselves office for life?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#703

Post by NotYourLawyer »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #605
NotYourLawyer wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. Seems fine that the bureaucrats to whom executive power is delegated should be answerable to the executive.

Yeah this is a key tenant of the MAGA 2016 and 2024 campaigns: draining the swamp, fighting the deep state, etc. How else is the executive supposed to align fed bureaucrats to his goals?

The unitary executive theory is hardly a maga invention.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#704

Post by [deleted] »

wilg wrote: post #608
neilv wrote: post #582

Who is actually behind all these executive orders? Do they all originate by the President saying "I want X" in reaction to something, and lawyers figuring out how to do X? Do some of them originate with a wishlist of some extremist think tank or powerful people, and they finally found a President who'll rubberstamp them? Other?

They put out a whole playbook called Project 2025, developed by a bunch of insane people at the Heritage Foundation. Trump lied and said he didn't know anything about it. Now they're doing it.

[deleted]

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#705

Post by grandempire »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #469
grandempire wrote: post #30

The only rebuttal I see in the media is that congress set these up to be “independent”. But our government doesn’t have independent branches. In fact that sounds a lot like “unelected and unaccountable”. So which branches are these agencies under? Is it in the judicial, legislative, or executive - and if it’s in the executive why can’t the chief executive manage business? On the other hand, one of the issues brought…

There’s prosecutorial discretion. If Congress doesn’t like it, impeachment is the remedy.

I think you’re right… impeachment is the main mechanism by which they can complain that he’s not enforcing the law. I’m struggling to think of what else they can do.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#706

Post by johnnyanmac »

codewench wrote: post #515
arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

> Nothing prevents the next president from having a radically different opinion. Of course, this is only relevant if they are interested in having a 'next' president, something which it seems a segment of society is less than open to.

I'm still betting Trump does not survive his natural term.

(and I'm not even implying anything. He's turning 79 this year and clearly not in top mental nor physical health).

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#707

Post by georgemcbay »

arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

> In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens.

IMO if you could look at this executive order in a blind test somehow not knowing who signed it and can ask yourself "would this be incredibly concerning even if it were passed by the political side I agree with?" and the answer is no then you're not looking through a lens, you are drinking kool-aid.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#708

Post by paulryanrogers »

agent281 wrote: post #688
spacechild1 wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> setting up the president as the sole power center is an inherently unstable system Only if there is a transition of power. If power stays in the same hands, the system can be very stable - and not in a good way.

Trump is pretty old at this point. Even if he decided to go full dictator, how long does he have? Maybe 5 to 10 years? I don't think it would be quite as "stable" as Putin's Russia.

The things Trump has put in place may long outlive him. Roe v Wade lasted a long time.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#709

Post by Waterluvian »

timoth3y wrote: post #671
dclowd9901 wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Supreme Court and Congress has no enforcement power, though, what recourse is there?

I know this sounds corny, but people are the recourse. We are part of the checks and balances. Whether it is as overt as a soldier refusing to follow an illegal order knowing they are risking court marshal, or as clandestine as mid-level bureaucrat slow-walking damaging policies, or people actually voting in local-to-national elections. Democracy is not a passive form of government.

I completely agree, which is why I’m very pessimistic about the outlook. I have no faith that the American public is up to the task. It will demand too much discomfort, and sacrifice, while the alternative will ask only that they do nothing.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#710

Post by meristohm »

giantg2 wrote: post #647
threeseed wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you need to combine it with the fact that a whole bunch of agencies e.g. FCC, SEC are now no longer considered independent from the Executive Branch. It’s the combination of actions that makes this so concerning.

One thing I'm interested in that they didn't cover in school, if there's 3 branches of government, then what branch were the independent agencies a part of before being moved into the executive? Yes, the expanse of power is concerning. Historically, all three branches have substantially expanded their powers since inception. People in power always seem to take more of it.

...plus journalism, the fourth branch.
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