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Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

arstechnica.com

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Re: Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

#701

Post by BrenBarn »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #650
ok_dad wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something else, I’m not sure what yet. Honestly, I’m not the best guy to ask but I know that I don’t want startups to continue breaking laws with impunity and I don’t want individuals to get imprisoned for stuff they do that isn’t affecting others in a meaningful way.

There isn't really a something else. You have bad laws that are in practice only enforced against the little guy. You could demand they also be enforced against the big guy, but that's hard to do when they're bad laws, isn't really a great outcome because they're bad laws, and its primary benefit would be in service of calling attention to the flaw so the bad laws can be repealed. And then maybe you should just start…

That is partly true, but it's also true that vastly increased enforcement against the big guys would still be better than what we have now.

Re: Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

#702

Post by empath75 »

Havoc wrote: post #8

Really curious what the judges are going to do here. Horse has functionally bolted on this already I’m guessing slap on wrist despite courts going after individual for a couple of movies torrented pretty hard

The reality of the situation is that the economic value and utility of AI is going to cause the laws to be restructured around them.

Re: Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

#703

Post by tiahura »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #645
tiahura wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about his family and friends? Do you blame them as well?

Why would I?

As a general rule, I'm not a fan of prosecutors. However, blaming a prosecutor for the suicide of a defendant, because they filed charges in a clear cut case, is just as unfair as blaming friends and family.

Re: Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

#704

Post by empath75 »

clueless wrote: post #589
nkrisc wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative to copyright then? Anything I create will be instantly reproduced and sold for less than I can afford to by some entity far larger and more efficient than me. > Level the playing field, incrementally, for everyone else who isn't a trillion-dollar corporation. There is no level playing field when you have individuals and trillion-dollar companies in the same market.

Right, all this talk about getting rid of copyright and no one is talking about what should replace it? how would we we incentives people to write good books? to pour 1000s of hours of their time to produce new knowledge?

As we all know, not a single book or work of art was produced before the creation of copyright.

Re: Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

#705

Post by therealdrag0 »

palata wrote: post #185
yoavm wrote: post #58

We all like hating big corporations, especially Meta, and people seem to use this as an opportunity to advocate for punishing them. I think it's wiser to advocate for changing our IP laws.

You're conflating different problems. Big corporations are too big, they should just not exist. When you have corporations more powerful than the government of the biggest states, it's a bug, not a feature. The IP laws may need rethinking. Saying that they should disappear because big corporations are above the law doesn't help, though. First kill the big corporations, then think about fair laws. Changing the law now…

Economies of scale generate value

Re: Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

#706

Post by erikerikson »

tredre3 wrote: post #683
erikerikson wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hasn't been my observation. Instead, I see a society where people regularly help and serve one other, frequently for free. Consider parents, social workers, most academics, food banks, charity in general, most workers in most businesses, et cetera. I wonder: who do you know and work with? A minority of people profit wonderfully off this. Incidentally, they seem to also preach principals that can only lead to the…

I don't disagree with your point that, in life, not everybody is in it for themselves. But the examples you chose to demonstrate altruism are a bit ridiculous: - parents: they wanted a child and now they have to take care of it, it's not a selfless act at all - social workers: are paid to pretend to care. Often they genuinely do care, but this isn't altruism, it's a job - most academics: I see you haven't met many ac…

Many children are unwanted. Consider adoption and neglect. Parents know not to admit these things broadly.

Social work is a very low paid existence and most of the social workers I know could easily have earned more elsewhere which they are pained to know but persist through regardless because they care more for living in a world with less total suffering even at the cost of their own.

I earned my MSc from the University of Edinburgh and interacted thoroughly with academics there and in the process of getting there. I know many people with their PhDs and have had personal friendships with professors, postdocs, and other researchers. I would agree that academic incentive structure have been made deeply dysfunctional and delusion abounds. Also that defection is common. I have known some of those evil actors (e.g. Sharon Oviatt) so I don't deny their existence.

The very premise of business is that it takes a profit from the excess efforts of labor. I'm not the ridiculous sort that fails to recognize that often workers productivity is both made possible and enhanced by the accumulated coordination and structure of firms and owners should capture some of that value. However, increasingly research is showing that the advantages of our society are being captured by firms. Meanwhile, too many owners are failing to responsibly reinvest in the population and have made religions out of not fostering true growth.

My claim is that multiple cultural norms live side-by-side and I'm trying to help you and others realize that different options are plausible and more advantageous. The cooperators learn self preservation and hiding while they are also harvested while and beyond doing so. My speculation is that the expanded belief holding of perspectives like yours decreases the size of that population which will be a downward spiral of inefficiency and impoverishment. I expect the bottom will fall out viciously if it gets to that.

My spending time on this conversation is altruism, what is it for you?

Re: Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

#707

Post by standyro »

WorldMaker wrote: post #673
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taxi Medallion laws were also a Reputation Engine that was publicly queryable , subject to FOIA laws and generally had easy to search public databases for them, with detailed notes. You just landed at the airport and need a cab. You fax your FOIA requests for each of the hundred cab companies in the area, which they're required to provide within 20 business days. Your return flight is in 3 days and it would be nice…

> You just landed at the airport and need a cab. You fax your FOIA requests for each of the hundred cab companies in the area, which they're required to provide within 20 business days. Your return flight is in 3 days and it would be nice to leave the airport before then. If you just landed at the airport, you rely on police enforcement keeping bad actors from having medallions. The medallion itself is the primary "t…

Let's recap the past: Taxis were borderline unusable in almost all American cities before Uber (except for NYC)

I certainly didn't love their ruthless business practices, but let's not delude ourselves and admit that Uber or Lyft wouldn't exist if they didn't break the laws around taxi medallions.

Sometimes laws do more harm than good (by limiting supply and slowing innovation) and it requires creatively skirting regulations.

Things were always possible to improve the taxi industry. Smartphones had been around a few years. But it would've taken the industry 20 years to implement it correctly. In the same way that rampant music and movie piracy in the early 2000s hastened the development of iTunes and Netflix's subscription model way of doing business.

Uber shows the driver's name, their photo, and has a process for flagging drivers. Public safety is important to their business. As someone who's driven an Uber and Lyft and been through their process, I've seen it firsthand.

It's not like "medallions" worked - I remember driving in multiple taxis in pre 2010 days where the photo DID NOT MATCH UP to the driver. My high school physics teacher who grew up in Brooklyn in the late 1970s told stories about how he learned how to drive by illegally working and driving taxis around as a 15 year old.

Right now, we're just going through the same thing with AI again, and Silicon Valley is applying it's ethos of the past few decades.

There are reasons why in various industries, China is "winning the race", so to speak.

Regulations exist, but sometimes people who creatively ignore the "regulations" can win the tide of the public. It's one of America's best (and incredibly divisive) cultural capabilities.

Re: Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

#708

Post by AnthonyMouse »

BrenBarn wrote: post #701
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't really a something else. You have bad laws that are in practice only enforced against the little guy. You could demand they also be enforced against the big guy, but that's hard to do when they're bad laws, isn't really a great outcome because they're bad laws, and its primary benefit would be in service of calling attention to the flaw so the bad laws can be repealed. And then maybe you should just start…

That is partly true, but it's also true that vastly increased enforcement against the big guys would still be better than what we have now.

Suppose that the status quo is the worst option, the second worst is enforcing the bad laws against the big guys, the best is getting rid of those laws.

Now, that might not be the case. Given the existence of bad laws, having someone who is able to break out of the bad cage might be better than if no one can, but let's consider what happens if we assume that it's worse.

Regardless of how they're ranked relative to each other, you would only pick either of the two worse options over the best if it was easier to do it. But getting bad laws enforced against well-heeled players is actually the hardest thing to do because they're doing something sympathetic and have the resources to fight, which is harder to do than repealing the bad laws.

Re: Meta torrented & seeded 81.7 TB dataset containing copyrighted data

#710

Post by cratermoon »

nayuki wrote: post #478
cratermoon wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The driver can't scam the passenger > The passenger can't scam the driver. Progress! Uber scams both passenger and driver. Hooray for Free Markets™!

> Uber scams both passenger and driver. Then why do people keep using it? It seems like a pretty transactional relationship to me. If drivers aren't getting paid as much as they wanted, they should find another job with a higher price. If passengers are paying more than they wanted, then they should find another way to call a taxi with a lower price.

> they should find another way to call a taxi with a lower price.

like what? Uber's business plan was always about eliminating competition. The company successfully did so by undercutting prices, only to jack them up when they had the market to themselves. There is no Free Market Fairy way to fix that.

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