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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#701

Post by JusticeJuice »

Miraste wrote: post #589
JusticeJuice wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tangentially similar precedents already, such as the American FACTA law. It is obviously a quite different context, as it just relates to financial information, not all information - but it's a law from the US government, that demands foreign companies send information back to the US. The wild thing is that foreign companies actually do it. To avoid annoying the US, a lot of other governments ensure that th…

The US can get away with this through its immense power and economic influence (for the moment, at least). The UK is a small market of middling relevance, and their government's belief that they're a global power is an anachronism. I hope these decisions cause enough companies to break ties that they're forced to realize their position.

Yeah totally, it only works due to their influence. The uk has nothing to backup these demands.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#702

Post by JusticeJuice »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #586
JusticeJuice wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tangentially similar precedents already, such as the American FACTA law. It is obviously a quite different context, as it just relates to financial information, not all information - but it's a law from the US government, that demands foreign companies send information back to the US. The wild thing is that foreign companies actually do it. To avoid annoying the US, a lot of other governments ensure that th…

The key difference being that it is perfectly legal for the US to request data on income and gains received by US taxpayers while it is illegal for the US to spy (in certain ways) on US residents. It is completely routine for countries to exchange data on financial accounts [1]. The only aspect that makes FATCA somewhat unusual is that the US taxes US persons even when they are residents of other countries. [1] https…

Oh 100%, the content (and context) is completely different. The similarity I mean is a government passing a law that asks a foreign company to hand data over to them.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#703

Post by wyclif »

Havoc wrote: post #113

UK tech laws seem to consistently be the worst of both worlds. Not rights centric like the EU and not business supportive like the US. Just old people making bad laws about stuff they don't understand - or are straight up citizen hostile, sometimes hard to tell which it is.

I'd like to think that we've reached the point now that there will be mass resistance to threats to privacy and freedom of speech in the UK, but Britons are such a docile, accepting, and pliant people when it comes to standing up to Big Brother.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#704

Post by FreeTrade »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #691
kridsdale1 wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc. Isn’t this precisely the set of causes that precipitated The Declaration of Independence?

Yes but no, post WW2 the UK was one of the most liberal places in the world. Somehow things took a turn in the past two decades or so. And then around the 2020s the decline started to rapidly accelerate. The stories that have come out lately are really insane.

Economic decline fuels resentment towards immigrants and minority communities. Government becomes increasingly repressive to keep tensions from boiling over into riots and perhaps worse. This is why countries are obsessed with growth - many things can be papered over with sufficient growth.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#706

Post by hilbert42 »

alkonaut wrote: post #304
Funes- wrote: post #216

Further proof against the idea that we live in "democracies", if anyone still believes that. We're at the hands of petty tyrants. Modern societies are surveillance hellholes, and it seems to only get worse and worse. So much for "progress".

I think this is unnecessarily defeatist. The UK is still a well functioning democracy. Using scare quotes around proper democracy just blurs the line to authoritarians and dictators. We elect our politicians. We demand they stop serious crime and terrorism. When they have bad ideas about how to do that, we let them know that it's a bad idea. Or we don't elect them again. This works.

"We elect our politicians. …When they have bad ideas about how to do that, we let them know that it's a bad idea. Or we don't elect them again. This works."

Think so? Perhaps on the surface. Think Yes Minister and Sir Humphrey. No matter how well meaning politicians are they'll be screwed rotten by determined public sector employees and then they'll be finished off by powerful corporate interests, citizens haven't a chance.

What's more you the citizen will likely be the last to know about it. Yes, outwardly all will seem normal as that's the plan but it's only a chimera—appearance is everything. Those in control learned that trick from Vespasian, it has a long lineage of working well.

Can't you see the Investigatory Powers Act wasn't dreamt up by politicans but by nameless but very powerful gnomes in GCHQ, MI6, etc., etc? For starters, politicians wouldn't have had the brains to concoct an Orwellian act on a scale like that on their own. (I've spent too long working in government bureaucracies to know how it works.)

Tragically, democracy, these days, is essentially dead. On the surface it appears alive and functioning and the citizenry still thinks it has say, but in reality it's actually like a cockroach that's been parsitized by a wasp—it's 'alive' in appearance only.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#707

Post by afro88 »

afro88 wrote: post #523
TrueDuality wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as Apple has a business presence in the UK, they are subject to the laws the UK imposes on them even if they're vastly overreaching and impose on other government's citizens. Not supporting cloud services wouldn't be sufficient to avoid the compliance requirement, they would have to formerly stop doing business in the UK. Looking at the market size that might be a decision that Apple is willing to make as it…

The decision wouldn't involve just market size, but their Irish tax haven as well. They're not going to pull out of the UK entirely.

Apologies for any offense given. Total brain fart moment. If I could delete this comment I would

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#708

Post by dehrmann »

Also on the front page, "German civil activists win victory in election case against Musk's X"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42975170

They're not exactly the same, but you should have similar feelings about forcing a company to hand over data to researchers and forcing a company to install a back door for law enforcement.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#709

Post by Shakahs »

dehrmann wrote: post #708

Also on the front page, "German civil activists win victory in election case against Musk's X" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42975170 They're not exactly the same, but you should have similar feelings about forcing a company to hand over data to researchers and forcing a company to install a back door for law enforcement.

Forcing Twitter to make public posts easily accessible is not at all the same as compelling Apple to hand over your private messages.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#710

Post by bufferoverflow »

Shakahs wrote: post #709
dehrmann wrote: post #708

Also on the front page, "German civil activists win victory in election case against Musk's X" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42975170 They're not exactly the same, but you should have similar feelings about forcing a company to hand over data to researchers and forcing a company to install a back door for law enforcement.

Forcing Twitter to make public posts easily accessible is not at all the same as compelling Apple to hand over your private messages.

Not the same, but still batsh#t.
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