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TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

reuters.com

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Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#701

Post by andrewla »

drawkward wrote: post #682
andrewla wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social networking platforms are among the most effective tools for mass influence, second only to religion. There is no evidence for this belief. Really for either religion or for "social networking platforms". You could maybe make the claim that this is true in terms of reach, but the implication here is that "these mediums can be used deliberately to influence people in a chosen direction", and this is just kind…

I don't recall legacy media spreading tourettes-like tics... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9553600/

Are you implying that this was a deliberate attempt by an agent to create tourettes-like tics? Are you also asserting that this hypothetical boogieman can do similar attacks on demand because of their understanding of social contagion [1]?

The idea of social networking (or other broadcast or widely disseminated media) being able to influence beliefs or behavior is kind of inarguable. In specific cases there might be causal confusion - whether the media was effective because of existing trends or piggybacked on other phenomena vs. creating the effect directly. But this is a far cry from claiming that it can be deliberately weaponized, or that it is more effective for this purpose than other means of information dissemination.

[1] Social contagion, a phenomenon that long predates the internet

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#702

Post by drawkward »

abeppu wrote: post #426
no-dr-onboard wrote: post #337

It's really rare for me to be pro-intervention when it comes to the government vs free-industry but TikTok has become undeniably, geopolitically hazardous for the US. The dismal bit of it is that nation state backed, habit-forming propaganda apps are only likely to proliferate.

I continue to be baffled by people who simultaneously believe that TikTok is dangerous because of Chinese propaganda that may happen in the future, but that all the other social media networks are not dangerous despite the mostly Russian misinformation and election interference that has been ongoing since 2016. So far as I can see the important part is not who owns the network, but just how easy it is for misinformat…

Ban all social media.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#703

Post by hnpolicestate »

antiterra wrote: post #676
hnpolicestate wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It demonstrates Western weakness. Remember, during the Cold war the "iron curtain" was meant to prevent Soviets from seeing Western culture, political points of views. The United States does not feel confident in its ability to persuade Americans that it's model, culture and political ideals are superior to global alternatives. Hence a Western Iron Curtain.

Simple exposure to culture, propaganda and points of view is child’s play compared to the modern strategy of inciting discord by amplifying existing differences and mass scale disinformation. Don’t forget that part of the reason there’s a compartmentalization between Douyin and Tiktok is China’s own concerns about their nationals being exposed to outside influence in a manner far greater than what the US dictates the…

You fundamentally misunderstand the rights American citizens have that are being violated. The government doesn't get to decide where it's citizens get their information from. We're supposed to be free to come to our own conclusions even if presented with propaganda and disinformation.

Once the government decides it has the right to curate what media it's citizens are exposed to you are living in a n authoritarian state.

These actions make me more hostile to my country.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#704

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

Jean-Papoulos wrote: post #254
paxys wrote: post #222

Anyone remember when they were in school and adults tried to ban access to a popular website? I imagine this ban will go down exactly the same. Never underestimate a bored teenager's ability to bypass tech restrictions. Heck maybe this is what is needed to finally get a new generation out of the comforts of their tech walled garden and get their hands dirty.

Don't underestimate the human ability to "settle for less" if said less requires less effort from them. There's a reason people pay for Netflix despite pirating proposing a higher level of quality ; Netflix is just easier. They will settle for the "easy" solution, which will be any one of the TikTok clones already existing (YT shorts, reels, whatever).

Convenience wins every time. Digital photos are lower quality but easy. MP3 is worse than CD quality but easy. Etc.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#705

Post by hnpolicestate »

mullingitover wrote: post #623
tnt128 wrote: post #614

Let’s be clear about one thing: it’s never about protecting the privacy of private citizens—that’s just the justification. Social networking platforms are among the most effective tools for mass influence, second only to religion. The U.S. has held a monopoly on this power, leveraging it to gather data on citizens worldwide and projecting our value systems onto others. Banning TikTok is simply an effort by us to main…

The US censorship of Chinese social media apps on these grounds sure makes it look like China was completely justified in doing it first.

The difference being American citizens used to have the final say while the Chinese never did.

Congratulations, you turned the U.S into an authoritarian clone of China.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#706

Post by ToValueFunfetti »

dml2135 wrote: post #533
logicchains wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This would help build up a more shared “worldview” like mediums such as radio and TV did; you chose the channel, but everybody on the same channel gets the same information. That would be a nightmare, going back to the bad old days when people's worldviews were entirely decided by whatever flavour of government propaganda their preferred TV station happened to favour.

Oh yea, thank god we left that world behind completely. It would be terrible like, some major news network was completely in the tank for one of our political parties, and a huge percentage of the population kept it on basically 24/7. That would completely poison our discourse. Good thing the internet fixed that one.

>huge percentage of the population

I happen to have just looked into this, and it turns out this percentage peaks at 1 (for Sean Hannity, apparently?), but typically is around 0.5%. Less huge than you may be imagining

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#707

Post by hxegon »

It's honestly wild how many people in these comments are defending some vague, unsubstantiated, paper thin national security scare vs recognizing this as a clear suppression of free speech and active stoking of xenophobia.

I would genuinely rather drop ship the CCP my SSN/banking info than trust the US government to do something in favor of it's own people when there's lobbying money involved. Why are so many of you pro-government and anti competition only when it comes to tiktok specifically? It's completely the opposite on nearly every other topic from what I've seen.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#708

Post by drawkward »

dns_snek wrote: post #700
drawkward wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a US Citizen and I 100% want this. I think this is far too small a step; I think all social media should be banned.

But this isn't about banning social media, it's about banning dissent. Would you feel the same way if the US government banned all mainstream media organizations except the ones you ideologically oppose?

> it's about banning dissent

On the contrary, I think it is about banning a propaganda and social engineering vector that is under the thumb of an adversarial foreign government. That, for me, is enough of a reason to ban it and justify it under our constitution.

The fact that I am in favor of banning all social media should tell you that it is not ideological, but rather that I think social media is extremely addictive, and has huge negative externalities.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#709

Post by theultdev »

hxegon wrote: post #707

It's honestly wild how many people in these comments are defending some vague, unsubstantiated, paper thin national security scare vs recognizing this as a clear suppression of free speech and active stoking of xenophobia. I would genuinely rather drop ship the CCP my SSN/banking info than trust the US government to do something in favor of it's own people when there's lobbying money involved. Why are so many of you…

Oh stop, it has nothing to do with xenophobia, the CCP has a terrible spying and human rights track record (organ harvesting, concentration camps, child labor, etc.).

Nothing to do with the Chinese people as a whole, and everything to do about their overlords.

Before you do some whataboutism, yes the US spies, even on it's own citizens. That is a separate issue we should make sure doesn't happen.

Two things can be bad and is not an excuse for more spying or letting foreign adversaries broadcast psyops.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#710

Post by GuB-42 »

jdlyga wrote: post #115

"I would literally write my social security number on a sticky note and stick it to Xi Jinping's forehead than go back to using Instagram Reels" I saw this yesterday and it's hilarious but this is the feeling right now. TikTok has such a culture of authenticity and realness and Instagram is so phony and overly perfect (not to mention ads and so many bots and spam). It's like shutting down Reddit and telling everyone…

> I would literally write my social security number on a sticky note and stick it to Xi Jinping's forehead

Somewhat paradoxically, I am actually more comfortable giving out private data to foreign countries than my own. I mean, what is Xi Jinping going to do with a US social security number? If I am in the US, it will be hard for bad people in China to reach me, because there is a border between the two countries, in every sense of the word. There is no such protection if me and my data are both in the same country.

Xi Jinping can have my social security number, in fact, he can have my whole life, it is not like he is going to do anything to an random guy who lives in a foreign country. I will definitely won't give these data to a neighbor I barely know because my neighbor can do something I don't want him to do with it and may find some motivation to do so.

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