Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs • Hacker News Board

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#701

Post by menaerus » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 9:16 PM UTC

ryao wrote: post #666

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are not solely reliant on process node shrinks for performance uplifts like Intel was. People who keep giving intel endless shit are probably very young and don't remember how innovative Intel was in the 90s and 00s. USB, PCI-Express, Thunderbolt, etc., all Intel inventions, plus involvement in Wifi and wireless telecom standards. They are guilty of anti competitive practices and complacency in the last years b…

Those standards are plumbing to connect things to the CPU. The last major innovations that Intel had in the CPU itself were implementing CISC in RISC with programmable microcode in the Pentium and SMT in the Pentium 4. Everything else has been fairly incremental and they were reliant on their process node advantage to stay on top. There was Itanium too, but that effort was a disaster. It likely caused Intel to stop i…

> AVX512 was that strategy’s zenith and it was a disaster for them since they had to cut clock speeds when AVX-512 operations ran while AMD was able to implement them without any apparent loss in clock speed.

AMD up until zen 5 didn't have a full AVX-512 support so not exactly a fair comparison. Intel designs don't suffer from that issue AFAIU for couple of iterations already.

But I agree with you, I always thought and I still do that Intel has a very strong CPU core design but where AMD changed the name of the game IMHO is the LLC cache design. Hitting as much as ~twice lower LLC latency is insane. To hide this big of a difference in latency, Intel has to pack larger L2+LLC cache sizes.

Since LLC+CCX design scales so well AMD is also able to pack ~50% more cores per die, something Intel can't achieve even with the latest Granite Rapids design.

These two reasons let alone are big things for data center workloads so I really wonder how Intel is going to battle that.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#702

Post by brokenmachine » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 10:00 PM UTC

p1esk wrote: post #558

brokenmachine wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard them say that in the Hardware Unboxed youtube video yesterday. I think it's this one https://youtu.be/olfgrLqtXEo

I don’t see any testing performed in that video. Did I miss it?

No testing, they estimated from the available information.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#703

Post by indrora » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 10:09 PM UTC

marricks wrote: post #590

marricks wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got into desktop gaming at the 970 and the common wisdom (to me at least, maybe I was silly) was I could get away with a lower wattage power supply and use it in future generations cause everything would keep getting more efficient. Hah...

For the curious what I actually did was stop gaming and haven't bought a GPU since 2000's! GPU stuff is still interesting to me, though.

I stopped playing a lot of games post-2010/2014 or so.

Lots of games that are fine on Intel Integrated graphics out there.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#704

Post by brokenmachine » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 10:15 PM UTC

simoncion wrote: post #601

brokenmachine wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link to an example case and riser cable?

I shouldn't have to link to the cable given that I said "Athena Power" and "Newegg", but sure, here you go. [0] Their Newegg store is here. [1] (They also sell that cable in different lengths.) The "away from motherboard expansion card slots feature" isn't particularly uncommon on cases. One case that came up with a quick look around is the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2. [2] I've seen other case manufacturers include this fe…

Man, things are getting really large and unwieldy with these giant GPUs we have nowadays.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#705

Post by NoPicklez » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 10:21 PM UTC

7bit wrote: post #654

NoPicklez wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jensen did say that in the presentation that compute performance isn't increasing at large enough scales to make enough change. The shift is moving to reliance on using AI to improve performance and there are additions in hardware to accommodate that. Isn't not being kept a secret, its being openly discussed that they need to leverage AI for better gaming performance. If you can use AI to go from 40fps to 120fps with…

DLSS and DLAA are terrible for any high-movement Games Like FPS, racing games, Action Games. I wouldn't exactly call it near identical quality. To shareholders this may ring true, but most gamers know that these GPS gains are not worth it and don't use it.. (They still buy it tho)

That's not true, DLSS isn't terrible for high movement games.

I've been using DLSS for FPS and racing games since I got my 3080 on launch and it works perfectly fine.

Frame gen might be a different story and Nvidia are releasing improvements, but DLSS isn't terrible at all.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#706

Post by throwaway314155 » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 10:29 PM UTC

ggregoire wrote: post #223

ks2048 wrote: post #192

This is maybe a dumb question, but why is it so hard to buy Nvidia GPUs? I can understand lack of supply, but why can't I go on nvidia.com and buy something the same way I go on apple.com and buy hardware? I'm looking for GPUs and navigating all these different resellers with wildly different prices and confusing names (on top of the already confusing set of available cards).

I read your question and thought to myself "why is it so hard to buy a Steamdeck"? Available only in like 10 countries. Seems like the opposite problem, Valve doesn't use resellers but they can't handle international manufacturing/shipping themselves? At least I can get a Nvidia GPU anytime I want from Amazon, BestBuy or whatever.

> At least I can get a Nvidia GPU anytime I want from Amazon, BestBuy or whatever.

You can? Thought this thread was about how they're sold out everywhere.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#707

Post by wtallis » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 10:34 PM UTC

markhahn wrote: post #678

ryao wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those standards are plumbing to connect things to the CPU. The last major innovations that Intel had in the CPU itself were implementing CISC in RISC with programmable microcode in the Pentium and SMT in the Pentium 4. Everything else has been fairly incremental and they were reliant on their process node advantage to stay on top. There was Itanium too, but that effort was a disaster. It likely caused Intel to stop i…

e cores are more like atom - intel owes no credit to arm.

Intel's E cores are literally derived from the Atom product line. But the practice of including a heterogeneous mix of CPU core types was developed and proven and made mainstream within the ARM ecosystem before being hastily adopted by Intel as an act of desperation (dragging Microsoft along for the ride).

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#708

Post by throwaway314155 » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 10:40 PM UTC

vonneumannstan wrote: post #304

blixt wrote: post #156

Pretty interesting watching their tech explainers on YouTube about the changes in their AI solutions. Apparently they switched from CNNs to transformers for upscaling (with ray tracing support) if I understood correctly though for frame generation makes even more sense to me. 32 GB VRAM on the highest end GPU seems almost small after running LLMs with 128 GB RAM on the M3 Max, but the speed will most likely more than…

If you want to run LLMs buy their H100/GB100/etc grade cards. There should be no expectation that consumer grade gaming cards will be optimal for ML use.

> There should be no expectation that consumer grade gaming cards will be optimal for ML use.

And yet it just so happens they work effectively the same. I've done research on an RTX 2070 with just 8 GB VRAM. That card consistently met or got close to the performance of a V100 albeit with less vram.

Why indicate people shouldn't use consumer cards? It's dramatically (like 10x-50x) cheaper. Is machine learning only for those who can afford 10k-50k USD workstation GPU's? That's lame and frankly comes across as gate keeping.

Honestly I can't really imagine how a person could reasonably have this stance. Just let folks buy hardware and use it however they want. Sure if may be less than optimal but it's important to remember that not everyone in the world has the money to afford an H100.

Perhaps you can explain some other better reason for why people shouldn't use consumer cards for ML? It's frankly kind of a rude suggestion in the absence of a better explanation.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#709

Post by wtallis » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 10:48 PM UTC

Andrew6rant wrote: post #693

delamon wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4K alone is not enough to define spatial resolution. You also need take into account physical dimensions. DPI is a better way to describe spatial resolution. Anything better than 200 DPI is good, better than 300 is awesome. Unfortunately, there are no 4K displays with 200+ DPI on the market. If you want high DPI you either need pick glossy 5k@27" or go to 6k/8k.

> Unfortunately, there are no 4K displays with 200+ DPI on the market. There are 4k 24" monitors (almost 200 DPI) and 4k 18.5" portable monitors (more than 200 DPI) you can buy nowadays

4k 24" monitors used to exist, but they've disappeared from the market and now the choices are either 27+" or laptop panels.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#710

Post by wtallis » Wed, Jan 08, 2025, 10:58 PM UTC

UltraSane wrote: post #685

shock-value wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P and B frames are compressed versions of a reference image. Frames resulting from DLSS frame generation are predictions of what a reference image might look like even though one does not actually exist.

But MPEG is lossy compression which means they are kind of a just a guess. That is why MPEG uses motion vectors. "MPEG uses motion vectors to efficiently compress video data by identifying and describing the movement of objects between frames, allowing the encoder to predict pixel values in the current frame based on information from previous frames, significantly reducing the amount of data needed to represent the v…

There's a real difference between a lossy approximation as done by video compression, and the "just a guess" done by DLSS frame generation. Video encoders have the real frame to use as a target; when trying to minimize the artifacts introduced by compressing with reference to other frames and using motion vectors, the encoder is capable of assessing its own accuracy. DLSS fundamentally has less information when generating new frames, and that's why it introduces much worse motion artifacts.