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Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

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Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#701

Post by joshlemer »

notevenremotely wrote: post #536
3vidence wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely no way he will be looked at as one of the better Canadian PMs.. By all accounts he will be looked at as one of the worst considering the position Canada was in at the start and end of his government. Inflation, unemployment, housing, homelessness, healthcare, crime, national unity, the overall economy. .. Just all of these things are significantly worse than 2015. With that being said I do think c…

Half of those issues are provincial. Canadian politics is the Spiderman meme with local, provincial and federal governments all pointing their fingers at each other. If healthcare in your province sucks blame your Premier.

It's more complicated than that. Technically healthcare is a provincial responsibility in the constitution but the feds bought their way into healthcare and regulate it through the Canada Health Act. The Feds cannot legally compel provinces to comply with the CHA but if they don't comply with it, they won't receive the federal health transfers which would essentially bankrupt the province. The province would still be getting taxed at the high federal rates, but without getting it back, to the tune of ~12% of total Provincial revenues.

Coming at it from a separate angle, it would be quite a coincidence if it just so happened that every single province in the country, over decades, has had their healthcare systems failing in basically the same way with the same problems for end users, despite having totally different geographies, economies, even languages, run by all kinds of different provincial parties across the extremes of the political spectrum. The parsimonious explanation is that there's a systematic issue in Canadian Healthcare as it's defined or operates across the country.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#702

Post by soupbowl »

hn-acct wrote: post #544
csense wrote: post #34

Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened…

> I'm not on the pulse of Canadian politics, so I don't really know what sins or political circumstances have led Trudeau to this point, or if he has any redeeming qualities. Personally, I'm glad to see him gone. Uh really? Is this another version of “Both sides” claiming you don’t know the pulse whilst amplifying a more right leaning, niche, view?

Niche view? Nobody likes Trudeau, not even is own party that is why they are pressuring him to step down. The comment you are commenting on might not be well thought out or in depth but it is how MANY average Canadians feel.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#704

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

clwg wrote: post #656
catgary wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s worth noting that the weekend before this, local residents of Ottawa had basically “stormed” one of the trucker convoy camps to unblock a road. There were genuine concerns that the residents of Ottawa were ready to take matters into their own hands, and it would be a bloodbath. Not to mention the blockade in Alberta where they were found with guns and a pipe bomb, with their communications indicating the…

I live in Ottawa. We were failed by all levels of government, our police services, and our intelligence services. The convoy drove across the country, broadcasting their intentions on social media. Yet, everyone acted shocked when they did exactly what they said they were going to do. I hesitate to call them protesters because I don't think they had a permit or a cohesive message beside F* Trudeau, but they were comp…

>I hesitate to call them protesters because I don't think they had a permit or a cohesive message beside F* Trudeau

I would assert that so-called "votes of no-confidence" in politicians are legitimate protest, even if they do not criticize any specific policy or behavior. It would be a strange world to live in where protests could or would be shut down and everyone would taunt the protesters with "but you didn't have a cohesive message except Stalin is bad".

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#705

Post by fidotron »

wmoxam wrote: post #686
fidotron wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prorogued means parliament will not meet, and so cannot hold any votes. Right now it is purely being used to prevent such a vote since there is a majority in parliament that would now vote against the government in such a situation, which in turn provokes an election. During his delusional ramblings (and that is no exaggeration) Trudeau said that the GG was persuaded to prorogue to the 25th March because of the no co…

Tying NDP support to their leader's pension is silly/lazy. As part of their deal with the Liberals, the NDP had some real power to implement legislation. If an election happened tomorrow the NDP would lose that power. Unhitching from Trudeau at this moment is a good move for the NDP, they want to distance themselves from Trudeau's unpopularity before the next election. That Trudeau is now leaving benefits them even m…

> Tying NDP support to their leader's pension is silly/lazy.

It really isn't - the alternative is it's the most unbelievable happy coincidence.

You have to wonder how blatant the personal moneygrabbing by Lib and NDP leaders has to be before their respective support bases actually accept what is going on in their faces. Those leaders see the parties purely as a way to secure power to use to gain personal wealth at the expense of the populous.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#706

Post by ungreased0675 »

segasaturn wrote: post #493
ungreased0675 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That logic seems like it would outlaw labor strikes too, especially in important industries. Sometimes, holding the economy hostage is the point. I take exception to the framing of “attempts to settle this.” The government used violence and threat of violence to make the problem go away. There wasn’t an attempt at compromise. Do what I say or else isn’t an attempt to settle.

The recent postal strikes in Canada are an example of the situation you're describing. Eventually the federal government had to step in and break the strike to get the mail system moving again - if the workers refused to comply, against the orders of the government, I actually think strong measures like the freezing of bank accounts would be warranted and supported by most Canadians.

The government should be able to force people to work under worse conditions and less pay they want to? That’s ok if most Canadians support it? Really? I hope you can appreciate just how dangerous this sounds, even if you think my slippery slope has a lot of traction on it.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#707

Post by indy »

nsavage wrote: post #542
indy wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were the general public's opinion of the protests? Also how 'dangerous' was the convoy perceived to be? Were the actions of the Government deemed to be overreach?

The protests lasted quite a long time and I think the public's opinion on it changed over time. At the beginning, most left-wing/centrist sorts of people saw it as an annoyance, but Ottawa is used to protests. Within the first week or so, people were bringing their kids to the event After the first week or so (again, going by memory here), I think the general perception of danger started increasing dramatically. Most…

Thanks for replying. As a non-Canadian, your response has been more informative than the weeks I spent reading Twitter trying to figure out what was happening.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#708

Post by bvan »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #380
rand_r wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why they couldn’t do the friggen obvious move of asking the police to unblock the roads by force, and impounding the vehicles for repeat offences. Going after bank accounts was a coward move that never made sense. If I just sat down in the middle of a subway tunnel, I would be removed by force immediately, no matter what I was protesting. They created problems for themselves by not doing the obvious solu…

The city or the province could have done that. They didn't. The Feds could only use federal reasons. The mishandled response to the trucker protest should be blamed on the city and the province, not on Trudeau.

Ultimately, the responsibility rests with the truckers, period.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#709

Post by joshlemer »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #179
nemo44x wrote: post #54

Is Canada better today then when he started as PM? I struggle to agree that it is. Housing is as bad as it has ever been and the immigration decisions seem to have been so careless that even people that would agree with immigration as a general principal are horrified by it by and large. The Canadian dollar has collapsed VS the USD. I guess it always ends bad if you stick around long enough.

Canada is definitely worse than it was ten years ago, but all of the major problems are provincial responsibilities: housing, health care, education, policing. The largely conservative provinces have done a very good job of blaming Trudeau and immigration for problems that are entirely their own.

Housing, healthcare and policing being provincial responsibility is an oversimplification. Provinces are basically compelled to comply with the federal Canada Health Act under threat of being taxed for, but not receiving the huge Canada Health Transfers which account for ~12% of provincial revenues. Housing on the supply side is largely provincial, but the feds could still take a larger role. They have had a long time to think of ways to bring in more skilled labour in the construction industry rather than, say, the fast food industry. And let alone thinking ways to solve the housing crisis, the Liberals wouldn't even admit until a few months ago that the price of housing is too high and should go down.

The feds run the RCMP, they set most criminal laws and sentencing, bail policy etc. As Poilievre repeats ad naseum, the same 40 repeat offenders are arrested thousands of times in Vancouver. It doesn't matter how good a job the police do if the justice system refuses to punish them.

I don't know what are the problems we're facing in education but I don't think that is on the top of the list of why Canadians are feeling frustrated with the Liberals.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#710

Post by joshlemer »

srid wrote: post #206
bryanlarsen wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is definitely worse than it was ten years ago, but all of the major problems are provincial responsibilities: housing, health care, education, policing. The largely conservative provinces have done a very good job of blaming Trudeau and immigration for problems that are entirely their own.

Out of curiosity, how is the housing & health care situation in those conservative provinces compared to other provinces (like Quebec, where I live in)?

Quebec has been led by the Conservative CAQ party since 2018.
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