Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Canada Should Join the EU

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

701–710 of 823 posts

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#701

Post by mainframed »

Amezarak wrote: post #674
mainframed wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Comparing colonization with 20/21st century labor migration is peak far right playing victims. I guess the people of Hawai'i and the Maori were also asked and decided in a democratic process if they want their colonizers to come in and help rebuild their economy and do the jobs no one else wants to do. > Similarly, I don't see how Germans wanting non-Germans to leave is racist. Wanting non-Germans to leave when…

I don’t know any modern country where people got to vote on immigration. It seems like even if you vote for the anti immigration parties you get just as much immigration. At least in America, “less immigration” won out over “more immigration” by clear polling margins every year since 1965, except for a few years in the 2010s. Democratic processes gave them more. I’ve seen similar results in the UK. Parties mentioning…

> At least in America, “less immigration” won out over “more immigration” by clear polling margins every year since 1965, except for a few years in the 2010s. Democratic processes gave them more.

You are probably referring to the Gallup poll [1]. To me, it seems, they don't make a distinction between legal and illegal immigration. Some questions even dig into the illegal part. I'd say illegal immigration is a different question, and also somewhat unique to the US. Here in Germany, illegal immigration would be a no-go. If you look at polls about legal immigration in the US it is a totally different result where 46% say keep the level and 30% want to increase it. [2]

> It seems like even if you vote for the anti immigration parties you get just as much immigration.

I did not find anything supporting your argument on an international level. Although for the US you are probably right considering the recent H1B drama. On the contrary, here is an international comparison showing that in many developed countries, people think migration strengthens their country vs. being a burden [3].

> wages would have to rise, and more Gerrmans would choose nursing over what they choose now.

I think it's not an either/or. It's a big problem with no silver bullet. We'll have to do multiple things.

> Further, since birth rates are dropping everywhere, aren't you just buying yourself a few years?

No. Look at the age pyramid of Germany. We have to overcome the baby-boomer generation.

> and their home countries will be in horrific shape because you've sucked away all their talent. What happens then?

In the past, Germany had deals with the respective Governments called "Anwerbeabkommen." The other state often had a high rate of unemployment. Also, they haven't been skilled workers, mostly. But yes, I think now it is different. And I heard, they are already pissed at us today.

But it's also a totally different argument. And the Nazis on German streets definitely don't care about effects in the home countries. They just want ethnic homogeneity without the consequences.

[1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/12/19/americans... [3] https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/14/around-the-wor...

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#702

Post by femiagbabiaka »

3vidence wrote: post #531
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People feeling likes many immigrant communities are creating enclaves instead of adopting the culture of Canada. Every immigrant community creates enclaves. Quebec is an enclave the size of a province. > Many recent immigrants are unskilled, resulting in a larger burden on provincial-based social services. I can find NO evidence for this whatsoever, do you have any?

Hard to say Quebec is an enclave.... It is quite literally the founding half of the country.

It’s an immigrant community that refused to integrate into the culture that existed there before them. If that sounds ridiculous it is because this entire conversation is ridiculous.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#703

Post by gruez »

rayiner wrote: post #576
kypro wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left-wing party in the UK has only just won its largest majority in history and we don't have another election for 5 years. That is largely because the right has split into populist right and centre-right parties though.

Labour won the election, but Starmer’s approval rating is already down to 27% after just six months. https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/dissatisfaction-starmer-reaches-... . That’s not surprising given that Labour got half a million fewer votes than it did in 2019, when it lost in a landslide, but won anyway because of infighting among the right wing. That’s what I meant when I said nationalists have rendered ruling parties…

>Labour won the election, but Starmer’s approval rating is already down to 27% after just six months. https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/dissatisfaction-starmer-reaches-.... That’s not surprising given that Labour got half a million fewer votes than it did in 2019, when it lost in a landslide, but won anyway because of infighting among the right wing.

The "a million fewer votes" is technically true, but misleading. It's entirely driven by lower turnout, not lower popularity. Despite "a million fewer votes", Labour's share of the popular vote actually went up from 32.1% to 33.7%.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#704

Post by loceng »

isodev wrote: post #64
loceng wrote: post #34

I think people are quite tired of the harms of a centralized globalization effort - whether from a decentralized cabal or official part of law and official government agreements.

On the contrary, I think we’re finally realising the benefits of centralisation. Separatism and isolation are things of the past.

What evidence do you have for your stance?

For my evidence I'll reference this top upvoted comment that references actual truths, realities on the ground:

"Does the economist know what time it is? Nationalism is resurgent: nationalist parties now control the U.S. and Italy. Canada seems poised to Poilievre, who has made impassioned appeals to Canadian nationalism. And in Germany, France, and the U.K., nationalist parties have effectively rendered the governing coalitions impotent, even if they cannot yet command a majority. What a time to suggest that Canadians cede their sovereignty to bureaucrats in far-away Brussels!" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42591290

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#705

Post by gruez »

Yeul wrote: post #667
remarkEon wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing isn't the only thing that "solves" immigration issues. The immigrants have to, you know, assimilate. For whatever reason this step has been deleted from the usual policy matrix, and as a result we've been running a great experiment over the last 20+ years in Canada, Europe, and the US.

Yes Indians come to Canada for jobs and money but keep their own culture. I always find it slightly bizarre. I have tried to explain that culture and economy are interlinked. India's inequality and superstitious beliefs will keep the population poor.

>I always find it slightly bizarre. I have tried to explain that culture and economy are interlinked. India's inequality and superstitious beliefs will keep the population poor.

These arguments are... unreliable to say the least. Back when east asia was poor, people made similar "culture and economy are interlinked" claims. Specifically, that confucianism was holding them back and keeping them poor. After the east asian miracle happened, people did a 180, and confucianism was a good thing led to their rapid growth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Asian_Tigers#Cultural_bas...

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#706

Post by lucb1e »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #637
lucb1e wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're responding to. I'm asking whether there is any bit of the place that is worth differentiating from what was said above, not having a prejudice about any which 10%

There are countless resources you can use to solve your extreme ignorance of the US. Asking people in a HN thread probably isn’t the most effective.

Easy to say "you're extremely ignorant" without even mentioning what of the data I saw is wrong, let alone provide a correction. Also makes it hard to know where to even start to either update my understanding or find that you're wrong and I'm wasting my time, whichever case it may be

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#707

Post by gruez »

3vidence wrote: post #510
roncesvalles wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Immigration is largely a symptom of declining birth rates. If the birth rate is above replacement, guess what, no immigrants needed!

If that is the case why is Canadas population expanding almost faster than ever recorded??? You would think to combat birthdates you would increase immigration to an appropriate level not 10x it in 5 years. Secondly immigration has a complicated affect on demographics since the people coming are generally 21 or older which is very clearly different than a birth which starts at 0 years old

>If that is the case why is Canadas population expanding almost faster than ever recorded???

...because of immigration? Birth rates have been far below replacement for decades now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Total_Fertility_Rate_of_C...

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#708

Post by dietr1ch »

sneak wrote: post #326
dietr1ch wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a certain amount of people that can adapt to a place, but if too many people of common culture comes in they just hijack the place. In Canada it seems to me they didn't establish the limit properly and people also worked around it by moving within Canada disregarding the agreement that they'd stay in a certain zone that still had some slack of people they could integrate.

Hijacking deprives someone else of their rights. Living differently than your neighbor doesn’t change anything for your neighbor. Nothing is “hijacked”.

I think it hijacks the local culture, there's probably a better word, but I'm no native.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#709

Post by dietr1ch »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #443
yhg56fgniyfv wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all your neighbors no longer spoke English, you don't think that would affect you? Obviously that's an extreme example, but other cultural differences will affect you as well.

If they all spoke a common language, I'd try to learn a bit of it. How exciting!

It can be a really cool thing too if both cultures open each other to exchange languages and celebrations, but it requires a lot of effort from everyone.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#710

Post by rayiner »

adammarples wrote: post #666
rayiner wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labour won the election, but Starmer’s approval rating is already down to 27% after just six months. https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/dissatisfaction-starmer-reaches-... . That’s not surprising given that Labour got half a million fewer votes than it did in 2019, when it lost in a landslide, but won anyway because of infighting among the right wing. That’s what I meant when I said nationalists have rendered ruling parties…

This is nonsense. Labour have a huge majority, there is no coalition, and their fall from popularity is 100% their own making and largely down to their own left wing policies (increased taxation, lying about it, bungs to unions, increased workers rights) and perceived corruption due to freebies (clothes, glasses). Labour basically ignore the right wing as irrelevant, Reform are only currently a problem for the Conser…

It’s also a problem for Labour that what’s stopping the right from winning the next election is in-fighting about how far right to go.
Post reply on HN