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Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

phoronix.com

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Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#701
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 128GB VRAM Intel Arc card at a low price would be an OSS developer’s dream come true. It would be the WRT54G of inference.

Of course. A cheap card with oodles of VRAM would benefit some people, I'm not denying that. I'm tackling the question of would it benefit intel (as the original question was "why doesn't intel do this"), and the answer is: Profit/Loss. There's a huge number of people in that community that would love to have such a card. How many are actually willing and able to pony up >=$3k per unit? How many units would they buy?…

I suspect that Intel could hit a $2000 price point for a 128GB ARC card, but even at $3000, it would certainly be cheaper than buying 8 A770 LE ARC cards and connecting them to a machine. There are likely tens of thousands of people buying multiple GPUs to run local inferencing on Reddit’s local llama, and that is a subset of the market.

In Q1 2023, Intel sold 250,000 ARC cards. Sales then collapsed the next quarter. I would expect sales to easily exceed that and be maintained. The demand for high memory GPUs is far higher than many realize. You have professional inferencing operations such as the ones listed at openrouter.ai that would gobble up 128GB VRAM ARC cards for running smaller high context models, much like how you have businesses gobbling up the Raspberry Pi for low end tasks, without even considering the local inference community.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#702
post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia desktop GPUs may be fine on Linux now, but are very much still trash on Laptops. I can't even begin to express how troublesome they have been on the work laptops I've been forced to use. I would've killed for any non-Nvidia laptop, even if just integrated graphics, but IT won't approve any other models, and the UEFI lacks an option to fully disable the Nvidia GPU.

On Optimus laptops, I usually disable the Intel GPU rather than deal with GPU switching. Those poor souls that have laptops without a proper multiplexer cannot do that, but I doubt it is a huge problem. With vulkan, you can specify the GPU to use via an environment variable.

The Optimus-encumbered ThinkPad P16s Gen1 I'm currently stuck with has no exposed option to disable the Nvidia GPU in the UEFI. The environment variable trick, as far as I know, can't be used to prevent the entire desktop from touching the dGPU. Almost all of my issues are related to the desktop compositor crashing or freezing after too many DKMS power events, returning from sleep, [un]docking from my external display, or just plain running for too many hours. I'm on the latest firmware, kernel, and drivers, and it still gives me grief.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#703
post #585
post #177

I love my a750. Works fantastic out of the box in Linux. He encoding and decoding for every format I use. Flawless support for different screens. I haven't regretted the purchase at all.

I wonder what happened to my brain writing the above. There is a "He" in there that makes no sense. Flawless support for "different" screens? I of course mean "many screens".

Probably "The". Your sentence makes sense to me with that typo correction, as I have one of these cards as well, primarily for video transcoding.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa doesn't actually make a ton of money off each transaction, if you divide out their revenue against their payment volume (napkin math)... They processed $12T in payments last year (almost a billion payments per day), with a net revenue of $32B. That's a gross transaction margin of 0.26% and their GAAP net income was half that, about 0.14%. [1] They're just a transaction network, unlike say Amex which is both an i…

If you have no clue how profit margins are calculated then you're better off staying quiet. It's quite simple. Divide revenue minus costs by revenue. Transaction volume isn't revenue. Visa only gets the transaction fee. Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and do a proper interpretation of the number you've arrived at, its meaning is quite different and quite off topic from this discussion. What you have calcu…

I didn't say that was their profit margin, that's their transaction margin.

As my mother used to say if you have nothing nice to say you're better off staying quiet ;)

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#705
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't stack that much ram on a GPU without sufficient channels to do so. You could probably do 64GB on GDDR6 but you can't do 128GB on GDDR6 without more memory channels. 2GB per chip per channel is the current limit for GDDR6 this is why HBM was invented. It is why you can only see GPUs with 24GB of memory at the moment. HBM2 can handle 64GB ( 4 x 8GB Stack ) ( Total capacity 128GB ) HBM3 can handle 192G…

Look at the RTX 3090 and RTX A6000 (the non-Ada one). They both have 24 memory chips with a 384-bit memory bus, but one has 24GB of VRAM and the other has 48GB of VRAM. They both have two chips per channel. This breaks the 24GB VRAM limit that you claim to exist.

Nope it doesn't that is 12 channels 2 modules per channel each module at 2GB is the largest the chip gets and the cost of those drastically increase the cost.

The problem you experience with GDDR6 and channels is width. You get higher in size but you'll never be able to fill the memory fast enough to be cost effective. Also why HBM exists. Lets say the top is 960GB/s for an A6000 for GPU memory. HBM3 is 3.35 TB/s.

If Intel wanted to make better GPUs it needs to switch to HBM.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#706
post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geohot (temporarily) giving up. https://github.com/ROCm/ROCm/issues/2198#issuecomment-157438... Sadly most of the real spicy Twitter messages are gone since he deleted all his content, but there was a really fun one where he went off on a beautifully cryptic commit message in the driver. He also begged AMD to opensource the firmware so he could debug it. Sadly, AMD promised to do it and then nothing happened, as is t…

Who is tinygrad?

tinygrad = George Hotz. (It's his company, __tinygrad__ is basically his "work account".)

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#707
post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Optimus laptops, I usually disable the Intel GPU rather than deal with GPU switching. Those poor souls that have laptops without a proper multiplexer cannot do that, but I doubt it is a huge problem. With vulkan, you can specify the GPU to use via an environment variable.

The Optimus-encumbered ThinkPad P16s Gen1 I'm currently stuck with has no exposed option to disable the Nvidia GPU in the UEFI. The environment variable trick, as far as I know, can't be used to prevent the entire desktop from touching the dGPU. Almost all of my issues are related to the desktop compositor crashing or freezing after too many DKMS power events, returning from sleep, [un]docking from my external displa…

Black list the kernel driver for the Nvidia card if you want to disable it.

That said, I wonder if you are using the nouveau driver. The Nvidia driver should not have such issues.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#708
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking for a GPU die at least as large as NVIDIA's TU102 that was $1k in 2018 when paired with only 11GB of RAM (because $1k couldn't get you a fully-enabled die to use 12GB of RAM). I think you're off by at least a factor of two in your cost estimates.

If Intel came out with an ARC GPU with 128GB VRAM at a $2000 price point, I and many others would likely buy it immediately.

HBM plz.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#709
post #151

12GB max is a non-starter for ML work now. Why not come out with a reasonably priced 24gb card even if it isn't the fastest and target it at the ML dev world? Am I missing something here?

The ML dev world isn’t a consumer mass market like PC gaming is.

Okay, Nvidia.

You're right: nobody's doing ML these days. /s

Look at the value of a single website with well over a million users where they publish and run open-weights models on the regular: back in August of 2023, Huggingface's estimated value was $4.5 billion.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea how that compares to Apple Silicon for that job? I bought the $599 MacBook Air with M1 as my plex server for this reason. Transcodes 4k HEVC and doesn’t even need a fan. Sips watts.

Apple's hardware encode/decode for AV1 is quite literally, shit.

there is no AV1 encode on any Apple products right now
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