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South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

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Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#701

Post by cess11 »

bluGill wrote: post #696
cess11 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Takes a pretty strong stomach to connect Netanyahu and honesty in any way. The US had to delist some terrorist organisation to make it possible for him to form a government, which went on to intensify the crimes against the palestinians while routinely lying about it, and then shrugged off warnings about the coming attack on October 7th, and then he's been lying about the policy regarding captives, and so on and so o…

> Takes a pretty strong stomach to connect Netanyahu and honesty in any way. It shouldn't. People are complex - all of them. Many people do both good and bad things. We should celebrate and encourage the good even while condemning the bad.

OK, I'll bite. What good has Netanyahu done that deserves attention?

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#702

Post by numpad0 »

falseprofit wrote: post #519
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which means that the president is ignoring the constitution. And so is the military. Very much not good...

I’m not sure the military is ignoring the constitution. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they’re supposed to follow the president’s orders.

Said military was also filmed live with empty pistols and training magazines on chest rigs, so it was clear that they were never on the President's side. SK has mandatory military conscription and so implication of waving around scary but empty guns was immediately understood and shared by local citizens.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#703

Post by TeaBrain »

EasyMark wrote: post #677
phist_mcgee wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird name: "rest of the world". I live in the "rest of the world" and never thought of myself like that.

Don’t you think “there’s my county $MY_COUNTRY, and then there’s the rest of the world” ? I figured every one did, I don’t really consider anyone a “citizen of the world”

I'm not sure whether it is as simple as every country being the same in this regard. On the average, I'd assume the average citizen of a non-US country to be more informed about the US political landscape, than vice versa.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#704

Post by leoedin »

zelon88 wrote: post #355
dyauspitr wrote: post #290

[flagged]

The paradox is; Society should benefit everyone equally. If it doesn't, then the ones who are not benefiting have a social responsibility to adjust it until it does. By hook or by crook, for better or worse. Equity is usually pretty difficult to swallow for those who are benefiting inequitably. But the thing is, if it's not working for everyone, it isn't working at all and it should probably be broken the rest of the…

Demographics is destiny. If equity increases the living standards of todays generation but means nobody has kids, then it is not an idea which will survive to future generations.

Unless western liberal society finds a way to either increase birth rates or reliably "convert" immigrants to our ideals, society of the future will be shaped by those groups who have a high birth rate today. Those seem to be tightly nit, religious and conservative groups.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#705

Post by dyauspitr »

leoedin wrote: post #704
zelon88 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paradox is; Society should benefit everyone equally. If it doesn't, then the ones who are not benefiting have a social responsibility to adjust it until it does. By hook or by crook, for better or worse. Equity is usually pretty difficult to swallow for those who are benefiting inequitably. But the thing is, if it's not working for everyone, it isn't working at all and it should probably be broken the rest of the…

Demographics is destiny. If equity increases the living standards of todays generation but means nobody has kids, then it is not an idea which will survive to future generations. Unless western liberal society finds a way to either increase birth rates or reliably "convert" immigrants to our ideals, society of the future will be shaped by those groups who have a high birth rate today. Those seem to be tightly nit, re…

The vast majority of immigrants, atleast in the US, have been wholly converted to western ideals atleast by the second generation in my opinion.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#707

Post by exe34 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #629
exe34 wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's interesting that very few people would admit this, that society is founded upon violence.

Violence is a big part of it, but I used the word power specifically because I think it is more accurate. Violence is a major form of power, but so are utility and persuasion. You can persuade or pay people to things that you can't threaten or force them into.

> You can persuade or pay people to things that you can't threaten or force them into.

Any examples? Beyond immaterial things like respect/love/etc?

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#708

Post by zaccusl »

michaelt wrote: post #576
soraminazuki wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Militaries in liberal democracies should protect the constitution, even if that means disobeying the president.

The thing is, if you're planning a coup with military backing, you don't do it when your most rule-abiding, law-respecting general is in town. You send that guy to guard the Alaskan border or whatever, and instead recruit a general who's a maverick rules-breaker and who gets on well with you personally. So the military should respect the constitution, but when it comes to a coup you'll get whichever general respects…

I don't know much about coups actually work, but a general does not make an army.

A general that wants to stage a coup seems like they must still require the support of the troops.

Speaking anecdotally, every unit I've been in not a single man would follow the questionably illegal orders of any general unless they had full respect and confidence in that general, and typically the troops only have full respect and confidence in a subset of their immediate leaders (which are not typically generals). I guarantee a LARGE percentage of troops would treat the highest ranking general as an enemy combatant if their direct (low ranking) leaders who they respected convinced them that the general's orders were illegal or against their oaths. Soldiers don't die for generals, they die for each other, and "each other" is usually enlisted or low-ish ranking officers (maybe captain and below in the US). A professional and disciplined soldier will charge a hill risking certain death on the orders of a general, but a professional and disciplined soldier will not stage a coup on the orders of a general alone.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#709

Post by kbelder »

MrMcCall wrote: post #476
phkahler wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And, if there's two things that seems constant in conservative politics, it's that they don't want anything to change (by defintion of 'conservative'), and they do seem to be forever embroiled in accusations of corruption. Remember "accusation of corruption" is not the same as proven corruption, but making an accusation is an overt action by someone. Many accusations are false and sometimes are even projections.

Also remember that the guilty power-mongers' first defense is always "deny, deny, deny". The first casualty of corruption is honesty.

>Also remember that the guilty power-mongers' first defense is always "deny, deny, deny".

That's generally the first defense of innocent people, too.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#710

Post by sneak »

aurareturn wrote: post #328
lordgroff wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please--do tell more re: China. I hear a lot of parroting of negative talking point about China here in Canada, I see a lot of crazy footage from China that looks like the future, but I'd love to know more about your actual experience.

I'll tell you my experience: I was just in Shenzhen last month. It feels like a city that is 10 years ahead of any place in the US. The city felt extremely futuristic. Most cars on the road are EVs. Payments are all digital. Ordering at restaurants is on your phone. The entire city is extremely clean, civilized, efficient, safe which you can't say about any major US city. Hop on a high speed train at any time and go…

I can co-sign all of that, but the cleanliness and order comes at a terrible dystopian price. There is no counterculture, little underground, and everyone with resources who can leave, does.

China is a terrible place, the ultimate star wars crab bucket dystopian future. It’s shiny and pretty and has cool LEDs and malls.

Any place can be decades ahead if you simply outlaw the old ways of life. Authoritarianism is a terrible cancer.

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