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Open source AI is the path forward

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Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sticking point is you can’t build the model. To be able to build the model from scratch you need methodology and a complete description of the data set. They only give you a blob of data you can run.

Got it, that makes sense. I still wouldn't expect them to have to publicly share the data itself, but if you can't take the code they share and run it against your own data to build a model that wouldn't be open source in my understanding of it.

Data is the source code here, though. Training code is effectively a build script. Data that goes into training a model does not function like assets in videogames; you can't swap out the training dataset after release and get substantially the same thing. If anything, you can imagine the weights themselves are the asset - and even if the vendor is granting most users a license to copy and modify it (unlike with videogames), the asset itself isn't open source.

So, the only bit that's actually open-sourced in these models is the inference code. But that's a trivial part that people can procure equivalents of elsewhere or reproduce from published papers. In this sense, even if you think calling the models "open source" is correct, it doesn't really mean much, because the only parts that matter are not open sourced.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#702

“The Heavy Press Program was a Cold War-era program of the United States Air Force to build the largest forging presses and extrusion presses in the world.” This ”program began in 1944 and concluded in 1957 after construction of four forging presses and six extruders, at an overall cost of $279 million. Six of them are still in operation today, manufacturing structural parts for military and commercial aircraft” [1].…

In the Netherlands, for instance, there is "the national supercomputer" Snellius: https://www.surf.nl/en/services/snellius-the-national-superc... I am not sure about its budget, but my impression as a user is that its resources are never fully used. At least, none of my jobs ever had to queue. I doubt that it can compete with the scale of resources that FAANG companies have available, but then again, I also doubt how…

Snellius is a nice resource. A powerful Slurm based HTC cluster with different cues for different workloads (cpu/genomics, gpu/deep learning).

To access the resource I had to go through EuroCC [0], which is a network facilitating access to and exploitation of HPC/HTC infra. It is (or can be) a great competing model to US cloud providers.

As a small business I got 8 hrs of consultancy and 10k compute hours for free. I’m still learning the details but my understanding is is that after that the prices are very competitive.

[0] https://www.eurocc-access.eu/

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#703
this is very cool indeed that meta has made available more than they need to in terms of model weights.

however, the "open-source" narrative is being pushed a bit too much like descriptive ML models were called "AI", or applied statistics "data science". with reinforced examples such as this, we start to lose the original meaning of the term.

the current approach of startups or small players "open-sourcing" their platforms and tools as a means to promote network effect works but is harmful in the long run.

you will find examples of terraform and red hat happening, and a very segmented market. if you want the true spirit of open-source, there must be a way to replicate the weights through access to training data and code. whether one could afford millions of GPU hours or not, real innovation would come from remixing the internals, and not just fine-tuning existing stuff.

i understand that this is not realistically going to ever happen, but don't perform deceptive marketing at the same time.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Open weights" means you can use the weights for free (as in beer). "Open source" means you get the training dataset and the methodology. ~Nobody does open source LLMs.

This is bending the definition to the other extreme. Linux doesn't ship you the compiler you need to build the binaries either, that doesn't mean it's closed source. LLMs are fundamentally different to software and using terms from software just muddies the waters.

And LLMs don't ship with a Python distribution.

Linux sources :: dataset that goes into training

Linux sources' build confs and scripts :: training code + hyperparameters

GCC :: Python + PyTorch or whatever they use in training

Compiled Linux kernel binary :: model weights

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#706
A total ban on generative AI is the way forward. If the industry refuses to make it safe by self regulating then the regulator must step in and ban it until better, more fine tuned regulation can be made. It is needed to protect our environment, our democracy, our very lives.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#707

"Eventually though, open source Linux gained popularity – initially because it allowed developers to modify its code however they wanted ..." I find the language around "open source AI" to be confusing. With "open source" there's usually "source" to open, right? As in, there is human legible code that can be read and modified by the user? If so, then how can current ML models be open source? They're very large matric…

Of course you are right, I'd put it less carefully: The quoted Linux line is deceptive marketing.

- If we start with the closed training set, that is closed and stolen, so call it Stolen Source.

- What is distributed is a bunch of float arrays. The Llama architecture is published, but not the training or inference code. Without code there is no open source. You can as well call a compiler book open source, because it tells you how to build a compiler.

Pure marketing, but predictably many people follow their corporate overlords and eagerly adopt the co-opted terms.

Reminder again that FB is not releasing this out of altruism, but because they have an existing profitable business model that does not depend on generated chats. They probably do use it internally for tracking and building profiles, but that is the same as using Linux internally, so they release the weights to destroy the competition.

Isn't price dumping an anti trust issue?

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are giving it "for free" because: * they need LLMs that they can control for features on their platforms (Fb/Instagram, but I can see many use cases on VR too) * they cannot sell it. They have no cloud services to offer. So they would spend this money anyways, but to compensate some losses they just decided to use it to fix their PR by contenting developers

They also reap the benefits of AI researchers across the world using Llama as a base. All their research is immediately applicable to their models. It's also likely a strategic decision to reduce the moat OpenAI is building around itself. I also think LeCunn opposes OpenAI's gatekeeping at a philosophical/political level. He's using his position to strengthen open-source AI. Sure, there's strategic business considera…

Yes LeCun has said he thinks AI should be open like journalism should be - that openness is inherently valuable in such things.

Add to the list of benefits to Meta that it keeps LeCun happy.

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