Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think to would be extremely difficult to make the bus better than driving for people that already have a car. The most obvious option is making parking expensive or hard to find but I think that would lead to new politicians before people really embrace the bus. Reality is that americans dont enjoy being in enclosed spaces with strangers, hard to overcome that.
It shouldn't be that hard to make it better (for a decent fraction of people) for specific things, like say commuting or nightlife. It would be very hard to make it better for, say, picking up DIY supplies at the hardware store.
In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
701–710 of 783 posts
Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
#702Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the bus is a strictly worse version of the car in these kinds of cities You can change that by giving them their own lane so they don't get stuck in traffic with the cars, let them go where cars may not go, give priority at traffic lights etc. That is what they do where I live.
A city next to me (L.A. area) has some dedicated bus lanes and bike lanes. Unfortunately, they dont have one of the other benefits that you mention, like banning cars in some areas. There are also connections to the train to go farther, but the buses are still mostly empty except for students and laborers who live outside the city. The buses themselves are typically faster and decent, as I ride them a lot. Meanwhile,…
You take the bus so this goes without saying but, let's say a bus is mostly empty and has 8 people inside. If you were to put those 8 people into individual cars, you'd make the road a lot more crowded. I think a lot of folks look at these mostly-empty buses and don't realize that most cars are mostly-empty also (average 1.5 occupants / car in most of the US, honestly probably lower in the LA area due to its sheer car centricity.) But of course if you're in a car you're more likely to view another driver as "someone like you" while you look at the bus and think of it as a waste of space and taxpayer money.
Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
#703Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe the argument would be that not creating induced demand will provide market effects to encourage the use of transit, which would then create greater demand for improved transit. How does demand for public transit produce it? I mean public calls for more transit have been loud for many years and US politicians have taken that as opportunity to tax more and produce garbage transit construction project that enr…
Do you consider the DC Metro garbage and its recent Silver Line extension? People in seem quite pleased with their system.
My point is that growing demand for mass transit hasn't translated into anything.
Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
#704Earlier quoted context omitted.
but there is a solution to this problem: education. and i don't mean propaganda, but teaching people not to be selfish, to care for others and consider others needs, to contribute to the betterment of society. to have compassion, remove prejudice, etc. if these values were taught in schools, then the next generation would make better choices and they would know better and vote for better infrastructure.
The vision for what society should be is absolutely not consistent across political and religious spectrums. People vote completely the opposite on things like nuclear energy, wind energy, defense spending, etc all while thinking they are bettering society. Getting everyone consistent on those requires full on propaganda and forced “re-education” whenever people critically examine things.
a consistent vision is that everyone has a right to live their live according to their own ideas, as long as that doesn't affect others. but this vision requires an understanding that we all are contributing with good intentions.
it is the good intentions that we need to instill in everyone.
Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
#705Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not just the poor people. Even the non-poor people in New York are gross from the sweating and grit.
Okay, if you can't handle being around other people, then don't live in NY. But, what's your point here? Cus I know you hate it, but supply and demand says that waaaay more people like NYs than there actually _are_ NYs. People who can only exist in giant metal boxes, sealed off from the world at all times, can choose to live in nearly any city in America and live their bliss. But not everyone is you. You shouldn't ha…
My larger point is that public policy is a meta-market. We subsidize the suburbs because the majority of people like the suburbs. The net migration patterns in this country are to places like Dallas and Atlanta because that's where more people want to live.
Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
#706Earlier quoted context omitted.
but there is a solution to this problem: education. and i don't mean propaganda, but teaching people not to be selfish, to care for others and consider others needs, to contribute to the betterment of society. to have compassion, remove prejudice, etc. if these values were taught in schools, then the next generation would make better choices and they would know better and vote for better infrastructure.
It is crazy to honestly believe that those living in car dependent areas lack empathy. I'm sorry as someone who loves transit and will wax poetic on my lovely light rail, I am not okay with literally dehumanizing people I disagree with and saying they lack the ability to feel compassion. Come on.. you're better than that. Compassion, empathy, etc are found almost anywhere. Do people need to be shown it could work? Ye…
Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
#707Earlier quoted context omitted.
It shouldn't be that hard to make it better (for a decent fraction of people) for specific things, like say commuting or nightlife. It would be very hard to make it better for, say, picking up DIY supplies at the hardware store.
Theres no getting past the fact that being on the bus means youre necessarily close to strangers with no recourse when they do things you dont like. This is a pretty big problem to overcome in the US. The bus needs to be obviously much better than driving to get people to switch when they already own a car. Just a little faster/more convenient/cheaper wont cut it.
The big problem with sprawl is that it's subsidized. The federal government taxes the population at large and uses that tax money to build large roads and lay down the necessary utilities, sewage, and drainage. Interstates and interstate connections (viaducts, onramps, offramps, etc) come purely out of the FHWA budget which comes from taxes. Gas taxes help but the federal gas tax hasn't been changed since 1990 (indexed for inflation that's basically been a discounting gas tax) and as fuel efficiency standards increase and hybrid/EV penetration increases gas taxes end up netting less money per mile driven. Add to that the fact that cars are getting heavier in the US, increasing wear-and-tear on existing roads, and you're basically making maintenance of roads in the US cost more money per taxpayer. Some states have been increasing vehicle registration fees to compensate but that remains very unpopular.
Local roads are initially funded by the government and based on whether they are collector roads or arterials, state and federal governments allocate extra money to these roads. But when construction finishes these roads often need to be maintained by local municipalities which is when the problems come in. Often times municipalities, especially ones with lower incomes, begin having trouble maintaining roads. Higher income municipalities raise local taxes to pay for their roads but Americans also hate paying local taxes which makes this unpopular and often unviable in poorer municipalities where incomes cannot accommodate the extra tax. That's how you get huge, sprawly cities that have terrible pavement. My city is struggling with this. The rust belt has tons of cities with this.
Moreover as the US population increases we continue to sprawl outward, destroying nature with sprawly housing developments that are viable because federal and state governments often pay for initial development. You mention democracy but there's not that much democracy going on. Often times rural voters aren't organized enough to create the kind of opposition to sprawl that urban voters have. You can't have opposition via public comment in a rural area because there is no planning agency which listens to public comment in many rural areas. In fact that's often why developers target unincorporated rural areas in the first place.
Unlike Europe, Asian countries are fine with car use, but don't subsidize it nearly as much as the US does. Japan, outside of Tokyo (which is a huge city and an outlier in the way NYC is), has narrower and fewer lanes on their roads for given traffic volumes. Public street parking mostly doesn't exist and authorities quickly tow vehicles that park where they're not supposed to. As such there's a robust market for parking lots. The closer you are to a city center the more vertical, compact, and expensive the lots are. The further you are the cheaper the lots are. In really rural towns the towns run parking lots that are basically free during the day.
The US does a lot to encourage car use. It has much higher LOS standards for its roads than other developed countries, it uses federal and state tax money to offer free parking, police officers are kind to drivers and let them overstay parking limits for longer than they should and only ticket the most flagrant offenders tacitly allowing everything from using your phone in the car to styling your hair in it. And this car culture is irrational and taking up an increasing amount of GDP and emissions.
Also if it's democracy that's your problem, this article in Colorado is all about democracy. The voters voted in a pro-transit governor, they voted in the tax increases to fund additional transit, and they approve of planning officials who refuse to widen highways. So car culture isn't as popular in the US as some think. There is an increasingly vocal minority of people who aren't happy that car culture is losing its popularity though.
Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
#708Earlier quoted context omitted.
What’s so great about transit besides the environmental savings. Having to share space with other people, walk to the train station, put up with a train schedule, have no way to travel past some arbitrary time (midnight to 2am in most places), no way to transport large items or groceries, no way to go off the beaten path, having to live in densely populated cities with no room for any activities. I like the idea of h…
> having to live in densely populated cities with no room for any activities. Depends on activities, I guess, but my experience is the opposite, densely populated areas has vastly more activities available within 20-30 minutes reach especially to parents with kids.
Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
#709Earlier quoted context omitted.
Theres no getting past the fact that being on the bus means youre necessarily close to strangers with no recourse when they do things you dont like. This is a pretty big problem to overcome in the US. The bus needs to be obviously much better than driving to get people to switch when they already own a car. Just a little faster/more convenient/cheaper wont cut it.
It's fine that you don't want to be next to people, but then you need to pay for that privilege. It's not sustainable otherwise. The big problem with sprawl is that it's subsidized. The federal government taxes the population at large and uses that tax money to build large roads and lay down the necessary utilities, sewage, and drainage. Interstates and interstate connections (viaducts, onramps, offramps, etc) come p…
This has never stopped politicians before, not really sure why it will now.
Polis is much more than a pro transit governor. He's a successful serial entrepreneur, he's gay, he's charming in a nerdy way, and he's pragmatic. I dont think his election proves much about political will in regards to transit policy.
Re: In Colorado, an ambitious new highway policy is not building them
#710Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe the argument would be that not creating induced demand will provide market effects to encourage the use of transit, which would then create greater demand for improved transit. How does demand for public transit produce it? I mean public calls for more transit have been loud for many years and US politicians have taken that as opportunity to tax more and produce garbage transit construction project that enr…
Do you consider the DC Metro garbage and its recent Silver Line extension? People in seem quite pleased with their system.
When I lived in Northern Virginia however I experienced many disrupted or very slow trips due to issues with the DC Metro.