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This is a teenager

pudding.cool

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Re: This is a teenager

#701

Post by kvdveer »

wyre wrote: post #523
ip26 wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s likely strongly subject to Goodheart’s Law, however. In other words, there are probably many things you could do to improve the goal (e.g. figure out how to keep kids from seeing the violence) without improving outcomes for these kids (because they remain just as poor)

Not really? All things being equal a child that sees someone get shot will grow up more traumatized than a child that does not.

That makes intuitive sense, but that's not enough. Many untrue things make intuitive sense, especially when it comes to poverty.

Is there any research that shows that having witnessed someone get shot affects future prospects INDEPENDENT of the factors that lead to the kid witnessing someone get shot?

Re: This is a teenager

#702

Post by poutrathor »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #9

The visualization will frequently incorrectly show something of the form: True True False False True True False False

Also, the visualization let you think that all the leftmost teenagers are the same ones stacking the bad things. That might be true, but I doubt it is. The part around Highschool was especially unclear. Are they the same teenagers getting all the bad stuff. That would be plausible but not to the extend the visual displays I guess.

In other news, I hate that trend of scrolling to animate to get content.

Re: This is a teenager

#703

Post by fzeindl »

naasking wrote: post #373
fzeindl wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is old news. Basically children in bad situations need just one reliable person who believes in them in their lives. What it does is making them realize that it’s not them who are doing something wrong but that their surroundings are flawed. The problem begins when children start to believe everything is their own fault.

> What it does is making them realize that it’s not them who are doing something wrong but that their surroundings are flawed Speculative. I rather think that it shows them that there are other ways of living and that they have agency to get there.

No. They can see that there are other ways of living by watching their peers or random people on the street.

But they need somebody to make them understand that it’s not them who are destroying the relationship with their surroundings and their chance for being happy but the other way around.

Some children in bad situations understand that without guidance but they are rare.

Re: This is a teenager

#704

Post by komali2 »

theonething wrote: post #644
komali2 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it funny to want to make our country better? Do you believe it's impossible for America to more wisely spend its wealth? Do you believe Americans have it as good as is possible, considering how rich the nation is? I find this silly, because I can simply point at our education and healthcare outcomes to find two readily improvable conditions. Or, our child hunger rates.

> Why is it funny to want to make our country better? If the complainers had that attitude, I wouldn't mind at all and would endorse it. It's the whiners that have nothing more creative to say than how terrible America is that get me.

Isn't the first step to problem solving, identifying the problems? What you perceive as whining may be people trying to wake Americans up to the issues in the country, since "America best" propaganda is incredibly widespread. I have plenty of friends back in Texas that believe the existence of the Houston Medical Center means America has the best health outcomes in the world. It does, for cancer, for a certain income class... but mostly, it has some of the worst in many categories among developed nations. As an example of the blindspot many Americans have.

Re: This is a teenager

#705

Post by Hackbraten »

twelvechairs wrote: post #22

The animation is dominating the narrarive rather than assisting it. I (as many I assume) just want to skim the information and find myself stuck waiting for things to load or pathfinding algorithms to work. People keep flipping side to side needlessly also. Sometimes I'd just prefer flat 2d diagrams.

I can't believe I had to scroll down that far to find someone who had the same experience as I. Scrolling degenerated to 1 fps on an up-to-date Firefox. I didn't have a chance to follow the story.

Re: This is a teenager

#706

Post by sebstefan »

poutrathor wrote: post #702
doctorpangloss wrote: post #9

The visualization will frequently incorrectly show something of the form: True True False False True True False False

Also, the visualization let you think that all the leftmost teenagers are the same ones stacking the bad things. That might be true, but I doubt it is. The part around Highschool was especially unclear. Are they the same teenagers getting all the bad stuff. That would be plausible but not to the extend the visual displays I guess. In other news, I hate that trend of scrolling to animate to get content.

That's why you can see them run to one place or another

It's the same cohort of people all the way through and each little character moves according to the survey they filled out each year

Re: This is a teenager

#707

Post by Staple_Diet »

James_K wrote: post #379
cameldrv wrote: post #364

The punchline is this: "It's 2021. The research participants are in their late-30s now, which means they've had plenty of time to shape their own destinies. But we can clearly see that the experiences of their childhood had a huge effect on their financial situation as adults. It also has an effect on virtually everything else in their lives." You cannot infer the direction of causality from this data, i.e. that the…

> But then you get into why the parents are poor in the first place, and there are many causes, but a lot of them get passed down to the next generation in one way or another. Are you trying to say that these people are genetically poor?

I took it to infer that there are systemic factors that disadvantage segments of the population disproportionately and across generations.

Having worked with disadvantaged and vulnerable populations I would agree, we only hear about the pulled up by the bootstraps success stories and readily ignore the 99.99% of cases where offspring are worse off financially than their parents.

Re: This is a teenager

#708

Post by ernst_klim »

GuB-42 wrote: post #424
cameldrv wrote: post #364

The punchline is this: "It's 2021. The research participants are in their late-30s now, which means they've had plenty of time to shape their own destinies. But we can clearly see that the experiences of their childhood had a huge effect on their financial situation as adults. It also has an effect on virtually everything else in their lives." You cannot infer the direction of causality from this data, i.e. that the…

I think witnessing someone being shot is a good metric because it is factual. Either you saw someone being shot or your didn't, no ambiguity there, and no matter where you live, someone being shot is someone being shot. Not like "uninvolved parents" and "bullying" which are open to interpretation. This metric is also a proxy for living in a violent environment. It correlates with wealth, but it is also kind of the po…

> This metric is also a proxy for living in a violent environment.

Probably, probably not. The probabilities of witnessing someone being shot is extremely low in both environments. If amount of people who are living in violent environment is much lower, it may be that a person who witnessed someone being shot is more probable from a good environment.

https://www.anesi.com/bayes.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZGCoVF3YvM

Re: This is a teenager

#709

Post by cycomanic »

concordDance wrote: post #403
renjimen wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the order of events (childhood trauma THEN adult outcomes), and the strong relationships identified in the source material (while controlling for confounding factors), I think it's about as close as we can get to inferring directionality.

> I think it's about as close as we can get to inferring directionality. No, we can try interventions (e.g. do a big and expensive anti-violence/CCTV/policing campaign in a neighborhood) and record the result. I do think the grandparent has a point and a lot of these could have a common cause. e.g. a violent environment and poor educational attainment could both be caused by poverty or genes for impulse control or a…

> I do think the grandparent has a point and a lot of these could have a common cause. e.g. a violent environment and poor educational attainment could both be caused by poverty or genes for impulse control or a subculture with a higher acceptance these things.

How does a gene for (presumably less) impulse control make you more likely to have seen someone shot?

And yes growing up in a poor/more violent environment makes you more likely to end up poor with health problems later in life is exactly the point of the study.

Re: This is a teenager

#710

Post by coopierez »

mortify wrote: post #492
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, likely intentionally, understated. I cannot speak for the author, but the gist I got is that our society thrusts wholly unprepared people into adulthood and we could get a lot of improvements from just making it harder for people to fail at adulting. IYKYK and if you don’t you will get fucked - repeatedly. Basic life skills are not taught so it’s up to the individual if their family fails. Importantly,…

>making it harder for people to fail at adulting That has been the direction school has gone and, at least from my perspective, it seems worse. It has lead to a loss of agency among now so-called adults who expect to always be in a situation which guides them toward success. They struggle without a guidebook. Learning to fail, and crucially, how to handle failure and recover are better approaches.

The things the above poster suggested are largely man-made, artificially complex things seemingly designed to trap people. Things like paying taxes and handling healthcare are pretty much automatic in most European countries for example.
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