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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#701

Post by zmmmmm »

morcheeba wrote: post #581
zmmmmm wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good question. From the EU point of view it may be simply one of scale. If any of those held the amount of market power Apple does, I suspect the EU would designate them Gatekeepers and we would be off to the races. From the games publisher point of view, the console manufacturer is actually adding significant value and taking a fair (or not so fair) margin in exchage. Apple detracts value, contributes nothing…

>the console manufacturer is actually adding significant value and taking a fair (or not so fair) margin in exchage. I don't get this. What does a game console manufacturer do that Apple does not? Both provide hardware, system-level APIs, dev systems, developer support, customers. In the old days, game manufacturers didn't even provide a sales channel. And when you say Apple provides nothing, my above list is pretty…

They create dedicated hardware designed to excel at gaming and then sell it at or near cost. In a very real sense they create the market that games producers sell into, and the business model is explicitly centered around those software sales. They participate in marketing, branding, etc. There's a genuine holistic value exchange that happens. Apple's value exchange is almost negative. They invest nothing in gaming as an industry, charge a premium for the hardware and then add burdensome restrictions on how the software is delivered. And then they try to take the same cut that authentic gaming ecosystem players have as their whole revenue source.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#702

Post by dann0 »

First, it’s weird that anyone would take the side of Epic in any argument.

Second, it’s obvious that no one had actually read the article. Epic admitted that they have deliberately broken the App Store rules. That’s enough to have anyone sanctioned in any system.

Apple are certainly not unimpeachable here, but this blind hatred of Apple is out of control.

At least get the facts close to right before spewing your uninformed BS.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#703

Post by SllX »

overgard wrote: post #664
SllX wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. Non-discriminatory doesn’t mean they have no grounds to terminate Epic’s developer accounts, and Epic is continuing to make themselves look untrustworthy by trying to publicly and explicitly shank Apple. Spotify is also trying to shank Apple in all the same places Epic is, but they also didn’t go behind Apple’s back to deceive the prior review process in con…

I find it hard to see Apple being in the right here. While I'm not so naive as to think one company is "good" and the other "bad", I do think that as developers Epic is fighting for our best interests. Apple's app store monopoly serves only Apple.

In the right and within their rights are two separate things. I’m not exactly happy with all of Apple’s App Store policies either, but they have their rights.

I also don’t believe Epic is doing this for anything other than Epic’s self-interest. They have no duty to other developers, and this is a potentially new line of business for them, not a liberation of iPhone app developers.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#704

Post by ineedaj0b »

epic is being a dick. you don't usually be a dick like this and expect zero repercussions.

this is akin to apple and samsung making up but one party or both parties running to the media and calling each other a 'ch*nk, slant eyes' or whatever colorful language Samsung would paint the american apple...

you can insult in business speak! it's common, but epic decided on normal speak --- is it because sweeney is pulling an Elon? Or is this a sign there are others movements the public is not aware that epic is doing? I would bet on the latter.

I don't think this is a big deal. But I do wonder if fortnite is struggling more than expected and maybe there's an options play I should begin looking into

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#705

Post by dwaite »

jsnell wrote: post #416
threeseed wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) It is fair and non-discriminatory. Epic was found by the courts to have violated the terms of the agreement that they signed and Apple had the right to terminate it. They have done this with other developers as well. b) Epic is not their main competitor in anything.

Have any other companies announced credible plans for a competing app store? I'm at least not aware of any, which would absolutely make Epic their main competitor. It is pretty hilarious how people think some US court judgement would have any relevance on EU anti-trust regulation.

Yes, such as MacPaw's SetApp marketplace. https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/29/24086792/setapp-subscript...

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#706

Post by ineedaj0b »

pavlov wrote: post #693
zengid wrote: post #663

This is some spicy shit from Apple: > “In the past, Epic has entered into agreements with Apple and then broken them,” Schiller reminds the game maker in the letter dated February 23, 2024. “You also testified that Epic deliberately violated Apple’s rules, to make a point and for financial gain. More recently, you have described our DMA compliance as ‘hot garbage,’ a ‘horror show,’ and a ‘devious new instance of Mali…

Somehow I doubt that the EU competition authority will appreciate Apple’s logic that criticizing their implementation of pro-competition regulation is valid grounds for preventing a competitor from accessing said implementation. It’s like if your parents forced you to give a slice of your birthday cake to your little brother, and in spite you intentionally cut him a slice with no frosting. When he complains, you go:…

but epic was spitting on the cake. neither party is holy here

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#707

Post by zmmmmm »

In some ways it makes me question if it's impossible to have one without the other - can you have a company that is as obsessive about quality as Apple at the same time as one that won't attempt to exert monopolistic control over its whole ecosystem? Are these two sides of the same coin?

I'd like to embrace something like the Vision Pro. But as long as it's an iPad strapped to your face fully locked to this controlled ecosystem that I fundamentally disagree with, I can't stomach it. There's something visceral about giving a company that exerts this obnoxious level of control complete control of every photon entering your eyeballs.

So Apple, in case you ever care, you are at -1 Vision Pro users.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#708

Post by oliwarner »

generalizations wrote: post #228
oliwarner wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn’t want to do business in a place … And that's rather the point. Apple earns a lot of money in the EU and much of that seems to be through abusing their position. So yes, if you're the executive who signs off on something that is so clearly anticompetative, you should own the penalty. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. That, or leave.

You're ignoring the second half of that sentence, and pretending like the laws will only ever be enforced morally.

I'm not ignoring it, it's just irrelevant.

Anything you do —atomically legal or not— becomes illegal if it smothers the chance of competition by using you market dominance.

The thing I'm arguing here is that the person taking those decisions faces consequences.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#709

Post by ambichook »

MR4D wrote: post #539
screamingninja wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like Steam Deck? https://www.steamdeck.com/

No. A phone. EDITED to add for context: Here's my deal - we're locked into 2 basic choices. The choices are fine, but it's like a Ford vs Chevy thing - boring. I really want someone else to com into the market and make a phone feel special. Like when Air Jordan's first came out. Nobody thought about a shoe as being special before that. Red had a phone, but didn't execute as well as I would have expected. Image what a…

remember the razer phone? that actually looked genuinely interesting, but it got killed off by the time i was in a position to actually buy an expensive phone :<

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#710

Post by [deleted] »

bsimpson wrote: post #495

The raw emails are linked at the bottom of the post. Phil Schiller accuses Epic of intentionally violating its agreements and concludes "Please tell us why we should trust Epic this time." Epic founder Tim Sweeney replies that Epic "will comply" and offers to provide "any specific further assurances." Finally, Apple's lawyers tell Epic's lawyers that Apple is terminating the account because a judgement in Epic v Appl…

[deleted]
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