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Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

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Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#701

Post by ffgjgf1 »

idiotsecant wrote: post #612
jbarham wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> will do nothing for emissions > How can that be? Because a reduction of domestic gas usage will just be diverted to less efficient LNG exports. Given that by far the largest source of Victoria's electricity generation capacity is from dirty brown coal [1] if anything banning domestic gas usage might even make emissions worse since it will force people to use only electricity for cooking and heating. > Direct consu…

Is the correct strategy to wait to regulate gas usage until every country on earth does the same? That doesn't seem like a winning strategy. Someone always has to be last.

Banning domestic gas usage while a significant proportion of you electricity supply is produced by burning coal seems beyond absurd..

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#702

Post by ffgjgf1 »

im3w1l wrote: post #641
pama wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once the pipe is built, the maintenance cost is very low, much lower than maintaining and using a tanker.

When ships were attacked in the red sea they started diverting. When nordstream blew up that was it. Something to take into account, at least.

> When nordstream blew up that was it.

True but it was turned off some time before that happened

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#703

Post by Fuut »

demondemidi wrote: post #690
Fuut wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This whole thread is people who don’t own a house or heat pump screaming they are right and people who do own a house just shrugging because they’ve experienced reality.

[flagged]

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#704

Post by mlrtime »

pkulak wrote: post #551
readingnews wrote: post #86

I just replaced a furnace... everyone I called for a quote would not touch a heat pump with a 20foot pole, or they wanted prices that were 2X what a separate furnace and AC would cost to install. It was very strange. This is the second home where I had this experience.. basically, they really did not want to install it. I ended up going with gas as no local person would install/warranty a heat pump, or, it was priced…

Tradesfolk are _so_ political, it boggles my mind. I own a house, and need to get quotes for HVAC and plumbing stuff occasionally, and holy shit, I do not look forward to those conversations. Just nodding my head for 15 minutes while they look over my setup ranting about what they heard on cable TV last week. I mean, it's good to force me out of my bubble, but maybe not right into the deep end where, and this is from…

I have the same thought when someone gives me an opinion on the car I drive or the food I eat and how I'm killing the earth, meanwhile they take 10x the number of flights I do and have no idea how their food gets to them.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#705

Post by valenterry »

naijaboiler wrote: post #677
valenterry wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern great heatpumps, installed correctly, are rather between 5 and 7 in terms of COP. Also, even the best gas heating systems only achieve 90% efficiency. In other words, it either be very very very cold in your area, or you have to screw up the installation before gas has lower running(!) costs. Besides that, a gas power plant easily achieves 33% of efficiency for generating electricity from gas, rather 50% for t…

I dunno. My mom’s heating bills in Indiana using heat pumps with auxiliary electric heaters was >$700 month at electricity costing 11c/kwh. I live in Massachusetts where my electricity cost 33c/kwh. So if I used my mom’s heater to heat a house of similar size, my heating bill will be $2k/month. My heating gas bill is under 120/month. I understand a bulk of that cost comes from the aux resistive electric heater. But f…

I don't think so.

Check those measures for some example heatpump: https://www.eurovent-certification.com/en/catalog/program/ce...

They are not from the manufacturer but from an independent service that is used by various states that are members of the eu.

As you can see, at -7 degrees celsius, the COP is still almost 4. So even at that temperature, this heatpump is still about twice as afficient as burning gas directly.

Of course, it depends on the correct installation. It's easier to screw up the installation of a heat pump than a gas heating system. But it doesn't invalidate the theoretical bounds.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#706

Post by Retric »

naijaboiler wrote: post #678
Retric wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace your heat pump? People installing new heat pumps are going to see much higher efficiency. 50,000 BTU = 5.27528 * 10 ^ 7 J = 14.6 kWh / 6.6 kWh = COP of 2.2 at 50f which is absolutely terrible. Modern heat pumps should have a COP around 4 at those temperatures and 3 near freezing. Also, “Subtracting 10%” would mean your grid losses are 17%. “annual electricity transmission and distribution (T&D) losses average…

So I have to spend 10k on a new heater every 10 years just to keep up

I was assuming something was broken or had made a very poor choice of device. He clarified he was reading the wrong column, so it’s not quite as bad.

The technology isn’t advancing fast enough to make upgrading every 10 years necessary. You could buy units in 2000 with a significantly higher COP than he was implying.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#707

Post by tguvot »

mauvehaus wrote: post #457
turtlebits wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy one that has precharged refrigerant in the condenser. New units use R410a which does not deplete ozone. You'll also never need to handle refrigerant, only open a valve which release it into the copper lineset. You can buy a Mr Cool unit, you won't need to cut/flare/vacuum the lineset, just connect. I don't personally don't use them as their units generally cost a bit more, (30$ ~ 50%) and you're stuck with whatev…

I was looking at Mitsubishi units, which I believe also come pre-charged. I don't know if it's a local law or if the supplier just didn't want to deal with someone not in the trade.

costco/home depot sells mr.cool and they are quick and easy to install

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#708

Post by demondemidi »

Fuut wrote: post #703
demondemidi wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thread is people who don’t own a house or heat pump screaming they are right and people who do own a house just shrugging because they’ve experienced reality.

[flagged]

When you grow up and need to drop $20k of your hard-earned cash on a new HVAC, it'll be funny to see if you decide to take a chance when people you know that have heat pumps are bitching about them not working, or if you decide you want to be warm and not deal with the hassle.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#709

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #608
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6.7kW ground mount here in NM, still can't heat my home in winter in this climate (would need 21kW with my Mitsubishi hyper-heat units). We have relatively OK passive solar contributions too.

6.7kw is tiny. The smallest install I’ve personally seen is 15kw.

Pretty standard size for New Mexico. I have numerous neighbors with 6-12kW systems.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#710

Post by Fuut »

demondemidi wrote: post #708
Fuut wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

When you grow up and need to drop $20k of your hard-earned cash on a new HVAC, it'll be funny to see if you decide to take a chance when people you know that have heat pumps are bitching about them not working, or if you decide you want to be warm and not deal with the hassle.

[flagged]
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