Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

701–710 of 1001 posts

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#701

Post by Jare »

oezi wrote: post #679
poulpy123 wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know for Q* of course, but all the tests I made with GPT4, and all what I've read and seen about it, show that it is unable to reason. It was trained with an unfathomable amount of data, so it can simulate reasoning very well, but it is unable to reason

What is the difference between simulating reasoning very well and "actual" reasoning?

Probably best to say "simulate the appearance of reasoning": looks and feels 100% acceptable at a surface level, but the actual details and conclusions are completely wrong / do not follow.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#702

Post by IanCal »

davidwritesbugs wrote: post #670
marshray wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the solution requires arithmetic, one trick is to simply ask GPT to write a Python program to compute the answer. There's your 'add'.

Interesting, how do you use this idea? If you prompt the LLM "create a python Add function Foo to add a number to another number", "using Foo add 1 and 2", or somesuch, but what's to stop it hallucinating and saying "Sure, let me do that for you, foo 1 and 2 is 347. Please let me know if you need anything else."

Nothing stops it from writing a recipe for soup for every request, but it does tend to do what it's told. When asked to do mathsy things and told it's got a tool for doing those it tends to lean into that if it's a good llm.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#704

Post by meheleventyone »

cduzz wrote: post #555
muskmusk wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ask Ilya Sutskever he will say your kids head is full of neurons, so is LLMs. LLMs comsume training data and can then be asked questions. How different is that to your son watching YouTube and then answering questions? It's not 1:1 the same,yet, but it's in the neighborhood.

Well, my son is a meat robot who's constantly ingesting information from a variety of sources including but not limited to youtube. His firmware includes a sophisticated realtime operating system that models reality in a way that allows interaction with the world symbolically. I don't think his solving the |i+1| question was founded in linguistic similarity but instead in a physical model / visualization similarity.…

From the meat robot perspective the structure, operation and organisation of the neurons is also significantly different.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#705

Post by las_balas_tres »

muskmusk wrote: post #509
wbhart wrote: post #491

I feel very comfortable saying, as a mathematician, that the ability to solve grade school maths problems would not be at all a predictor of ability to solve real mathematical problems at a research level. The reason LLMs fail at solving mathematical problems is because: 1) they are terrible at arithmetic, 2) they are terrible at algebra, but most importantly, 3) they are terrible at complex reasoning (more specifica…

Friend, the creator of this new progress is a machine learning PhD with a decade of experience in pushing machine learning forward. He knows a lot of math too. Maybe there is a chance that he too can tell the difference between a meaningless advance and an important one?

Sure... but that machine learning PhD has a vested interest in being optimistically biased in his observations.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#706

Post by RandomLensman »

torginus wrote: post #674
somenameforme wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think any rhetoric could ever persuade you to you adopt the opposite general worldview of what you currently have? I'm positive that it could not for me. The reason for this is not because I'm obstinate, but because my worldview is not formed on persuasion, but on lived experience. And I think this is true for the overwhelming majority of people. It's why our views tend to change as we age, and experience more…

Yes. Do not forget that we literally live in the Matrix, getting all the information of import through tiny screens, the sources and validity of which we can only speculate on. All of the validity of the info we have is verified by heuristics we have, like groupthink, listening to 'experts' and trying to match up the info with our internal knowledge and worldview. I feel like our current system of information allows…

Some people get relevant information not only from little screens but interactions with other human beings or physical reality.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#707

Post by CodeCompost »

wbhart wrote: post #491

I feel very comfortable saying, as a mathematician, that the ability to solve grade school maths problems would not be at all a predictor of ability to solve real mathematical problems at a research level. The reason LLMs fail at solving mathematical problems is because: 1) they are terrible at arithmetic, 2) they are terrible at algebra, but most importantly, 3) they are terrible at complex reasoning (more specifica…

It's a text generator that spits out tokens. It has absolutely no understanding of what it's saying. We as humans are attaching meaning to the generated text.

It's the humans that are hallucinating, not the text generator.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#708

Post by serf »

codedokode wrote: post #691
wbhart wrote: post #491

I feel very comfortable saying, as a mathematician, that the ability to solve grade school maths problems would not be at all a predictor of ability to solve real mathematical problems at a research level. The reason LLMs fail at solving mathematical problems is because: 1) they are terrible at arithmetic, 2) they are terrible at algebra, but most importantly, 3) they are terrible at complex reasoning (more specifica…

> The reason LLMs fail at solving mathematical problems is because ...because they are too small and have too little weights. Cats cannot solve mathematical problems too, but unlike cats, neural network evolve.

>Cats cannot solve mathematical problems too, but unlike cats, neural network evolve.

cats evolve plenty, pressure towards mathematical reasoning has stymied as of late what with the cans of food and humans.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#709

Post by RandomLensman »

hackerlight wrote: post #586
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that there's a fairly large body of evidence that persuasion is of limited use in shifting political opinion. So the persuasion would need to be applied to something other than some sort of causative political-implication-laden argument.

> Except that there's a fairly large body of evidence that persuasion is of limited use in shifting political opinion. The Republican Party's base became isolationist and protectionist during 2015 and 2016 because their dear leader persuaded them.

I don't think that aligns with the reality of the opinion formation. There was a strong subset of isolationist and protectionist views before 2015.

Re: OpenAI researchers warned board of AI breakthrough ahead of CEO ouster

#710

Post by TMWNN »

hackerlight wrote: post #586
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that there's a fairly large body of evidence that persuasion is of limited use in shifting political opinion. So the persuasion would need to be applied to something other than some sort of causative political-implication-laden argument.

> Except that there's a fairly large body of evidence that persuasion is of limited use in shifting political opinion. The Republican Party's base became isolationist and protectionist during 2015 and 2016 because their dear leader persuaded them.

I know that by "dear leader" you mean to imply that Trump did something unfair/wrong/sinister/etc ("just like Hitler", amirite fellas?)., but a leader of a large group of people, by definition, is good at persuasion.

Franklin Roosevelt moved the Democratic Party in a direction very different from its first century. The party's two previous presidential nominees were a Wall Street corporate lawyer (John W. Davis) and Al Smith who, despite also being a New York City resident and state governor, so opposed FDR by the end of his first term that he founded an influential anti-New Deal organization. During the Roosevelt years the Democrats lost significant support from traditional backers, but more than made up for it with gains elsewhere in what became the New Deal coalition.

Similarly, under Trump the GOP lost support in wealthy suburbs but gained support elsewhere, such as Rust Belt states, Latinos (including places like South Florida and the Texas border region), blacks, and (according to current polls) young voters. We'll see whether one compensates for the other.

Post reply on HN