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California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

reuters.com

701–710 of 1001 posts

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by the lower number of accidents that AVs are involved in per distance travelled compared to human-driven vehicles Just a note that this number is hard to calculate accurately with an acceptable degree of certainty. Anyone claiming that AVs are involved in fewer accidents per distance traveled than human drivers is either extrapolating from incomplete data or baking some unreliable assumptions into their statement.…

Tesla just announced 500 million miles driven by FSD [1]. Per the video, were it fully autonomous they could have a 95% CI on "safer than human" at only 275 million miles [2], but obviously having human supervision ought to remove many of the worst incidents from the dataset. Does anyone know if they publish disengagement data? [1] https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/... [2] https://youtu.be/y…

Do you trust claims and data from Tesla?

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by the lower number of accidents that AVs are involved in per distance travelled compared to human-driven vehicles Just a note that this number is hard to calculate accurately with an acceptable degree of certainty. Anyone claiming that AVs are involved in fewer accidents per distance traveled than human drivers is either extrapolating from incomplete data or baking some unreliable assumptions into their statement.…

Can someone summarize the video? That was my first thought as well: crash data for humans is clearly underreported. For example, police don't always write reports or human drivers agree to keep it off the books.

I sustained traumatic injuries a few months ago when a driver on a suspended learner's permit hit me. The lazy cop issued no tickets for the multiple traffic violations. He couldn't be bothered to show up for the trial and the lazy prosecutor who only notified me of the trial three days in advance went with a bare minimum wrist slap for the suspension. It's as if it officially never happened.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a Waymo come to a screeching halt in a split second as a... less than intelligent individual... skateboarded in front of a bus, into the extremely busy road . If it was a human that person would have been dead, no question. Sometimes I'm riding in a Waymo (which I do every single day, 4x) and it does something, and I double take. Then a second later I see whatever it was it reacted to, and I'm like "dang, why d…

Good grief, two skateboarders lives saved by a Waymo in two consecutive comments. A couple of weeks ago I came across a biker partially lying in the road, trapped by his bike. I parked my van at an angle, so if it was hit from behind it should roll past him. I jumped out and performed an assessment (I'm a qualified, OK: certificated first aider). I diagnosed "pissed" and ascertained he was unharmed. We got his bike i…

Though Waymo et al aren't really competing with unusually good drivers, more with average drivers and they are probably safer there, on the roads they have been trained for.

(one study - 100% reduction in the frequency of bodily injury claims and a 76% decrease in property damage -https://www.ktvu.com/news/waymo-says-its-driverless-cars-saf...)

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#704

But not Waymo. Which confirms all my personal biases. More seriously, the statement cites four specific clauses that caused the permit to be suspended. The second one seems really interesting as it implies that there was a lie of omission where the others are more or less what I’d expect regarding safety risks: > Today’s suspensions are based on the following: > 13 CCR §228.20 (b) (6) – Based upon the performance of…

Waymo is leagues ahead of Cruise wrt their AV tech. Saying otherwise as your post is implying is borderline misinformation.

I have the same sense but even in this discussion I see one angry comment about, “those companies” that doesn’t seem to distinguish among Waymo, Cruise, and (in context, I think) also Tesla.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#705
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If humans aren't the baseline then what is?

The baseline should be other engineering we trust with our lives, like planes, trains, ships, skyscrapers, and bridges. Society expects more from technology than from humans... that's why we use technology! Deaths from self-driving cars should be very minimal, every crash analyzed and understood, and findings publicly communicated and mandated.

It's worth noting that both Waymo and Cruise do report a shit load of statistics to regulatory bodies, including all incident reports. Neither company has caused a fatality to my knowledge.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very obtuse way of looking at things. Society is not a monolith. The people and companies choosing to invest into self-driving cars are not the ones who would be able to make communities more pedestrian- or transit- or bike-friendly. As much tech as there is in the bay area, Google is not a local duke that can unilaterally make streets less car-dominant. The people who can choose to make communities more fr…

I would argue that it is less due to politics and "safe streets" being an extreme position and more to do with the fact that _entire metropolitan areas_ are designed around the car. It would literally require starting from scratch in many places to design a city around non-car ownership. You can argue that it is a net negative that a lot of America, and most of the American west, was built and grew in conjunction wit…

> I would argue that it is less due to politics and "safe streets" being an extreme position and more to do with the fact that _entire metropolitan areas_ are designed around the car.

These are the same thing.

> It would literally require starting from scratch in many places to design a city around non-car ownership.

No, it wouldn't. This is part of the common set of myths that are promulgated around car dominance in America. There are many, many things that can be done to retrofit streets to be less oriented around car dominance, many of them not terribly expensive or time consuming (though admittedly the very best options do tend to be infrastructure that's expensive and time consuming).

For example, one thing Portland has done in some of its neighborhoods is to create neighborhood greenways, with concrete structures/blockers at some intersections that force you to turn, so that cars can't use the street as a 'through street' for commuting (but it's still possible to reach everywhere with a car for residents). This is fairly cheap and easy to do, it's just a matter of political will.

Here's an example picture (though the exact type of blocking structure can vary): https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/styles/max_768w...

This is a big improvement that doesn't require redoing the whole street or anything, just a few concrete dividers and a little paint along a street maybe every four or five intersections, enough to make it impractical to use for longer-distance car commuting.

Some other things that are usually relatively cheap to add to existing streets:

* Automated speed cameras

* Roundabouts

* Chicanes

* Protected bike lanes, using basic dividers

* Dedicated bus lanes

* Better bus stops that at least have some kind of roof and bench

* Zoning rule changes that play well with density, like allowing light retail in currently residential-only zones, or allowing 'missing middle' housing

These are off the top of my head, but I know there are more.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where you live is a compromise. Sometimes I wished I lived downtown - but there are enough things that make it unlivable that I instead choose something else. However many of the things I don't like about downtown would be easy to change.

That’s not the way I see it. There’s no reason for it to be a compromise unless it’s purely financial. I have everything set up just the way I like it with the existing status quo.

You don't have easy access to the symphony, whatever museums are downtown, many restaurants, or any of the other things you could have. You have set yourself up a different life, but to get that you had to compromise something else.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#708
Safety is certainly a huge concern with this class of vehicles. But by programming these cars to drive extremely conservatively, they cause disproportionate congestion as well. This seems to be underplayed in approval discussions around these vehicles, but is a major cost.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#709
post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have multiple radars, lidars, and cameras. They're far more capable of detecting obstacles than people are.

They have different capabilities, but it doesn't follow that such technology is better than the built-in tech in homo sapiens.

It is demonstrably better. They see more and react faster. They can see around obstacles that humans can't and they never get tired or distracted.

Re: California suspends Cruise's autonomous vehicle deployment

#710

As a pedestrian I'm not a fan of being an unwitting part of a private company's beta testing. Before this devolves into whatboutism vs the safety of human drivers, my opposition is to adding yet another unknown safety layer to walking down the street. Usually when private companies are developing products that could kill, drugs for example, it is on the company to exhaustively prove the safety and effectiveness befor…

tesla next

Tesla just lies about what constitutes self-driving, totally different
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