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Raspberry Pi 5

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Re: Raspberry Pi 5

#701

Post by mattigames »

dingi wrote: post #619
jancsika wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can get considerably more powerful mini PCs for less than a 4GB Pi5 with needed accessories that is upgradable, has further software support, and includes all of what you need to get with a Pi. Name three, please, with emphasis on the "considerably more powerful" part.

How about a mini pc with Alder lake N95 with 8g RAM/256g nvme for $120 https://a.aliexpress.com/_mt4AHVM

So double the price for slighly better CPU (3.9GHz turbo speed vs 2.4GHz -or 2.9GHz with OC-, both with 2MB L2 cache), for energy it needs 36W (vs 10W), 2 usb ports (vs 4), no microSD support, and it weights 4 times as much (without including HDD); it does have 256 GB of storage included but for $20 you can get a microSD of the same capacity for the Rpi5 (or 128GB for $10 when that's enough). Yeah, it doesn't look as that much of an improvement.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5

#702

Post by spacechild1 »

000ooo000 wrote: post #132

What would someone excited about the improved specs on the 5 be using a Pi for? I have 1-2 of each gen, but to me, they aren't devices I would use if I needed grunt. They're just solid little low power, low heat devices for running odds and ends. Curious what people who are pushing them hard are using them for.

I use my RPis for multi-media installations, with at least 2 cores almost maxed out. So I am quite excited about this announcement :)

Re: Raspberry Pi 5

#703

Post by mlyle »

Kirby64 wrote: post #683
mlyle wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FPC is used in billions of devices-- that are professionally assembled, usually assembled only once, well-enclosed, and careful attention has been given to strain relief. It's cheap and compact and allows very small assemblies. It's not so hobbyist/tinkerer friendly, where you're likely to put a lot of cycles on the connector, bend things back and forth, and end up with an enclosure that does not protect everything a…

Again, this sounds overblown. Obviously the cables are somewhat fragile and you can't just be a brute with them... but the alternative is making a PCB that is much larger to accept a M.2 slot. It just isn't possible in the current footprint from what I can tell. Also, other connectors for this type have surprisingly low durability. Most M.2 slots are rated for extremely low mating cycles. Amphenonol, who I would cons…

> but the alternative is making a PCB that is much larger to accept a M.2 slot. It just isn't possible in the current footprint from what I can tell.

I'm not saying they made a bad choice; they're facing a lot of constraints and have a lot of IO to get out while staying hobbyist friendly.

> Also, other connectors for this type have surprisingly low durability. Most M.2 slots are rated for extremely low mating cycles.

Sure, but I don't -need- as many mating cycles for M.2, as it'd be screwed to the board and done. Whereas if I'm dealing with a Pi stackup and coming in and out of the case, I'm likely to get through the couple dozen cycles I'm allowed with FPC. And if I'm putting it on a vibration-intensive environment like a quadcopter, I need to be pretty dang careful with mechanicals.

> Again, this sounds overblown.

Everything's a tradeoff. Flex is cheap and small and offers versatility. It's also delicate and annoying.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5

#704

Post by bmicraft »

moffkalast wrote: post #227
futureshock wrote: post #206

I think it’s notable that the chip powering the RP5 is built on a 16nm process. (The RP4 was on 26nm). This is a nearly 10 year old manufacturing process and it’s silly to compare the performance per watt to any Intel or Arm chip on the market today. On such an old node, it’s not surprising that the power draw is so high. Of course an M2 would smoke a RP5 at a much lower power. But the RP5 is 60 bucks!

Side note, lowering the process means smaller wires and more susceptibility to ESD. I've never vacuumed a Pi 4, but also haven't lost any to it in countless sketchy mounting points. That might change on the 5, GPUs built on 10 nm and lower just die if you touch them wrong.

GPIO is now connected to the RP1 I/O controller which is on a 40nm process, so that should actually be an improvement

Re: Raspberry Pi 5

#705

Post by llbeansandrice »

ryanisnan wrote: post #698
permo-w wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

median is a type of average. the parent commenter means the mean

Is this correct? I know no definition where median can be interpreted as an average.

It's frequently used in when talking about incomes specifically. [0]

> For example, the average personal income is often given as the median—the number below which are 50% of personal incomes and above which are 50% of personal incomes—because the mean would be higher by including personal incomes from a few billionaires. For this reason, it is recommended to avoid using the word "average" when discussing measures of central tendency and specifically specify which type of measure of average is being used.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average

Re: Raspberry Pi 5

#707

Post by fnordpiglet »

fanf2 wrote: post #611
fnordpiglet wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remain in production could mean like the nano 2 W which is manufactured in such small numbers it’s never in stock.

It’s available to buy from several places https://rpilocator.com/

Not in the US it’s not.

https://rpilocator.com/?country=US&cat=PIZERO2

(Btw I misspoke and said nano when I meant zero)

Re: Raspberry Pi 5

#708

Post by hedora »

zxcvgm wrote: post #77

Interestingly the Pi 5 has moved most I/O like Ethernet, USB, MIPI and GPIO into a custom I/O controller chip called the RP1. It talks to the main CPU over 4-lane PCIe. They also have a custom PMIC (Dialog DA9091) with a built-in RTC and support for external backup battery. Everything else seems pretty standard.

I’m surprised they are only claiming 2-3x performance improvements for this vs. the four.

The four was great until I realized that they hung all sorts of stuff off the same bottlenecked USB controller.

I’d think moving them to PCIe would net much more than 2-3x real world improvement.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5

#709

Post by reissbaker »

wredue wrote: post #476
Archelaos wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess that is fair, especially with inflation nowadays. The accumulated inflation in the US since June 2019 is c. 17%.[1] This means US$ 55 in June 2019 is "worth" c. US$ 64.35 today. So it seems that you get a 4GB Raspi 5 for c. 7.25% less today. The "US Real Average Hourly Earnings" have increase by ca. 22% in the same period, from US$ 27.75 to US$ 33.82.[2] So an average person needs to work c. 12% less to buy…

Please stop using “average” for wage comparisons. It’s an utterly useless metric for showing if wages are moving or not. If you must use average, then you should remove the top 5% from the average.

"Real Average Hourly Earnings" is already an adjusted metric to make sure that it's not skewed to the top earners (hence why it's called "Real Average" and not just "Average"). In the linked post you'll note the following explanation of what "Real Hourly Average Earnings" means: "Data relate[d] to production employees in mining and logging and manufacturing, construction employees in construction, and nonsupervisory employees in the service-providing industries," which apparently covers roughly 80% of private sector jobs in the US.

Re: Raspberry Pi 5

#710

Post by thamer »

dustfinger wrote: post #706

I don't seem to see any mention of video RAM. How much memory does the GPU have?

The VideoCore VII GPU does not have its own VRAM, it's only a compute chip. From the Hackster.io review[1]:

> The chip also features a new Broadcom Videocore-VII graphics processor running at up to 800MHz, and is linked to the buyer's choice of 4GB or 8GB of LPDDR4x memory.

https://www.hackster.io/news/raspberry-pi-5-review-hands-on-...

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