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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

701–710 of 835 posts

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are mostly less fun to drive around in, now. They used to be bigger, with nice wide & deep seats, and they had way better visibility. Plus more were convertibles. Now they're smaller, with thick heavy safety beams providing much worse visibility, and there aren't many convertibles around. There are exceptions, but they're mostly fun for the driver , not passengers. And they're usually expensive. Plus, at-home en…

> Cars are mostly less fun to drive around in, now. They used to be bigger, with nice wide & deep seats, and they had way better visibility. Plus more were convertibles. I am curious if you do not live in the US. The cars here have only gotten bigger... much bigger. Pickups and very large SUVs rule the roads now, with huge lifts and massive footprints. Many of the most popular large SUVs, such as the Jeep Wrangler or…

I mean 50s and 60s (and, to some degree, 70s) cars. Modern cars are taller but there were some absolute boats back then, and they weren't uncommon. And they felt huge on the inside. All but the largest of big-ass SUVs don't feel as big as they did, when you're actually in them.

[EDIT] And even with the added height, the view from a truck or SUV sucks compared to those old cars. The only modern car I've been in the comes half-way close is some model or other of Tesla, and even that wasn't terribly close. Modern windows are shorter (they start higher up the door), windshields more-angled (for less actual viewing angle), and pillars have gone from a thin strip to big ol' things that are far thicker, both width and depth. One feels far less closed-in in most old cars than in most modern cars.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#702
post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have that freedom to walk anywhere after parking you know. I have done this 100’s of times. Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car. Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it. Driving is much better unless you live in a large city like NY or LA. My own climate control, radio for music and podcasts, plus driving is therapeutic. I…

Public transit is also a germ factory and as somebody who's immuno-compromised I really like not being sick all the time.

When I used the metro for commuting I got sick all the time. This is of course anecdotal but it really felt that way at the time.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have that freedom to walk anywhere after parking you know. I have done this 100’s of times. Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car. Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it. Driving is much better unless you live in a large city like NY or LA. My own climate control, radio for music and podcasts, plus driving is therapeutic. I…

Driving is a luxury, and should be priced accordingly

It is ridiculously expensive but the freedom is unparalleled. It would takes two hours to go across town. It takes 30 minutes by car. This is in Helsinki. Public transport works only to and from city center, sideways travel is royally painful.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of the remaining accidents are caused by high-speed riding. In my own experience, I've had normal encounters that were I driving a car would have resulted in an accident, but by riding a motorcycle I have the ability to easily maneuver to avoid the accident. To make sure this isn't downplayed. Having riden a motorcycle for years, many car drivers _do_ _not_ _see_ _you_. That car that just pulled out in front o…

Many people think that "because I'm on a motorcycle" or "because I'm on a bike" or "because I'm a pedestrian" they're magically granted some special protection from morons on the road and the laws of physics. Sure, "the law" says you might have the "right of way" but does that really matter when some idiot in a 2 ton truck runs you over because he was looking at his phone? I was a rider until I got in an accident (in…

My father always said you can be dead right. Meaning you may have been right and the other driver was being unlawful, but you're still the one who's dead.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#705
I grew up obsessed with cars, I used to play racing video games almost exclusively, attend car shows etc.

I now work for a large german car manufacturer as a SWE. I cannot afford the cheapest car they make, it is literally more than I make in a year before tax. I don't own car yet and I'm not sure I will be able to afford one in the next 3-5 years. I don't even care that I (a former car nut) works for a car manufacturer when this would've been my dream job as a kid

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#706

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

> Okay, so what about used cars? The average used car price in the U.S. is now over $28K (KBB). That's more than I've ever paid for any new car I've ever bought! That's more than I've spent on buying, taxing, insuring, MOTing, and repairing every car I have owned since I passed my driving test nearly 30 years ago. We live in an age of ubiquitous information. It has never been easier to learn how to repair things. Why…

> Why would you pay more than most new cars cost, when you could pick up some shiter for a few hundred, run it until it breaks

In this thread and IRL it seems people are deathly afraid of a car breaking down. When I bought my most recent car (2001 Corolla) people were like “ooh what if it breaks down”. Wow, IDK, maybe I’ll fix it? Or maybe I’ll junk it. Still cheaper than buying a newer car. And it’s not as if newer cars are immune from problems. If anything, newer cars seem both less reliable and less repairable due to the ever increasing complexity. The cost to repair the CVT transmission in a 2017 Subaru is twice the cost of my entire car and their failure rate is through the roof.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#707
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked... Do you feel the same way about your home? Your day's itinerary will inevitably have to see you return there, too. Too see the other side, it may be useful to think of a personal car as home-like transportation infrastructure and always using public transit…

Driving is not like being at home because it requires active focus and continuous observation of an evolving social situation where other people’s decisions could cost lives. If sitting on a train is like being in a hostel, then driving is like doing tedious office work in a cubicle. I’d rather hang out at the hostel.

Maybe for you but not for everyone. I’ve been driving for almost 30 years, consistently speed well above the speed limit, text and drive, and probably all of the other no nos that some people preach. Still never been in an accident or been pulled over and I pretty much am zoned out whenever I drive.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#708
post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably so they don't have to personally drive them everywhere. My mother has a coworker who has a 22 year old daughter who is essentially unemployable because she can't drive and therefore can't get to work and can't afford to move to a place where walking/transit is an option. The family has a spare car.

The problem in your example is quite clearly not whether she currently knows how to drive. This is a skill that is trivial to acquire (given that there's a spare car, and if it's North America, driving schools are plentiful and a barely detectable pulse is sufficient qualifications for a driver's licence). The actual problem is two-fold: parents who enable this dependency by offering rides and don't charge rent; and…

The vast, vast, majority of the population lives within biking or public transport distance of some shit corner store for a kid to work in. Right now most of them are hiring. 10 weeks of part time labor is enough to buy a fairly old 49cc scooter, which in many states requires no license.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of the remaining accidents are caused by high-speed riding. In my own experience, I've had normal encounters that were I driving a car would have resulted in an accident, but by riding a motorcycle I have the ability to easily maneuver to avoid the accident. To make sure this isn't downplayed. Having riden a motorcycle for years, many car drivers _do_ _not_ _see_ _you_. That car that just pulled out in front o…

Many people think that "because I'm on a motorcycle" or "because I'm on a bike" or "because I'm a pedestrian" they're magically granted some special protection from morons on the road and the laws of physics. Sure, "the law" says you might have the "right of way" but does that really matter when some idiot in a 2 ton truck runs you over because he was looking at his phone? I was a rider until I got in an accident (in…

By that argument you should never cross a road as a pedestrian...

FWIW I do agree, the safety aspect is by far the biggest downside of motorcycles/bikes. But there's plenty that can be done to make both a lot safer, and examples of countries that have pulled it off successfully. And once you have a significant fraction of people no longer using cars, roads tend to become safer for everyone.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that if you do decide on an old and affordable car, it's offset by the price of its constant repairs and the anxiety that it could break down again at any moment.

You just need to do your research first. I recently bought a 2001 Corolla with 200k miles. I felt confident because it has a timing chain, no belt to snap. Manual transmission which is bulletproof, just needs a new clutch every now and then. And it’s a a common car so it’s easy and cheap to find spare parts. This era is probably the sweet spot for reliable cars. Post 2010 cars have gotten extremely complicated both m…

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